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Controlling cron tasks

Torsten Seyffarth
Hi,

I am using the latest version of OC on an OpenSuse 12.3 Server. I have
one system disk that contains the main file system and is running all
the time. Only some data including the data directory from OC is on a
separate RAID that goes inactive if nothing happens for 30 min, which is
most of the time for me.

This worked fine until I wanted to use the News App. For this app I have
to switch from AJAX update method to cron, so the the news feeds can be
updated regularly. Unfortunately the RAID is never going to sleep then.
I guess it cannot be the news feeds, because they are stored in the
MySQL database, which is on the system disk. OC probably looks every
time if all files are still there, or something in that direction?

Can somebody explain more detailed, what happens when cron.php is called
and if this behavior can be changed somehow, so e.g. that only the news
are updated and the files work as before?

regards
Torsten
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Re: Controlling cron tasks

Bernhard Posselt
The news app uses a cache folder in the data directory for caching feeds. Maybe that's the problem

Torsten Seyffarth <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am using the latest version of OC on an OpenSuse 12.3 Server. I have
>one system disk that contains the main file system and is running all
>the time. Only some data including the data directory from OC is on a
>separate RAID that goes inactive if nothing happens for 30 min, which is
>most of the time for me.
>
>This worked fine until I wanted to use the News App. For this app I have
>to switch from AJAX update method to cron, so the the news feeds can be
>updated regularly. Unfortunately the RAID is never going to sleep then.
>I guess it cannot be the news feeds, because they are stored in the
>MySQL database, which is on the system disk. OC probably looks every
>time if all files are still there, or something in that direction?
>
>Can somebody explain more detailed, what happens when cron.php is called
>and if this behavior can be changed somehow, so e.g. that only the news
>are updated and the files work as before?
>
>regards
>Torsten
>_______________________________________________
>Owncloud mailing list
>[hidden email]
>https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
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Re: Controlling cron tasks

Bernhard Posselt
In reply to this post by Torsten Seyffarth
You can change the cache directory though if you want to

Torsten Seyffarth <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am using the latest version of OC on an OpenSuse 12.3 Server. I have
>one system disk that contains the main file system and is running all
>the time. Only some data including the data directory from OC is on a
>separate RAID that goes inactive if nothing happens for 30 min, which is
>most of the time for me.
>
>This worked fine until I wanted to use the News App. For this app I have
>to switch from AJAX update method to cron, so the the news feeds can be
>updated regularly. Unfortunately the RAID is never going to sleep then.
>I guess it cannot be the news feeds, because they are stored in the
>MySQL database, which is on the system disk. OC probably looks every
>time if all files are still there, or something in that direction?
>
>Can somebody explain more detailed, what happens when cron.php is called
>and if this behavior can be changed somehow, so e.g. that only the news
>are updated and the files work as before?
>
>regards
>Torsten
>_______________________________________________
>Owncloud mailing list
>[hidden email]
>https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
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disappointed users

Matthias
Hello list,

I think there are a lot of disappointed owncloud users in the user forum
and all over the web. The point is, everyone is fascinated of this
software... until he loses data for the first time (like I did). I know
it is hard to build a complex software like this and it will take time
until it is stable. But it is not stable now and people are syncing Gigs
of Data and wonder why files disappear.

I wish that:
People get warned that it is still beta. This is honest and people will
understand.
To concentrate work on the main features like file sync, versioning,
calendar, contacts. It is not a good idea to develop apps if these
things do not work accurate.

I also try to help cleaning the code cause I also would like to see
owncloud being absolutely stable and people happy using it.

My two cents.. ;)

Kindly
Matthias
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Re: disappointed users

Frank Karlitschek-3
Hi,

thanks a lot for your feedback. I completely agree with you. We _have_ to work on the existing bugs and improve the stability of ownCloud. This is more important than new features.

On the other people with problems should help the developers with good and detailed bug reports and logfiles and description how to reproduce it.

Thanks a lot.


Frank




On 15.08.2013, at 09:38, Matthias <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> I think there are a lot of disappointed owncloud users in the user forum and all over the web. The point is, everyone is fascinated of this software... until he loses data for the first time (like I did). I know it is hard to build a complex software like this and it will take time until it is stable. But it is not stable now and people are syncing Gigs of Data and wonder why files disappear.
>
> I wish that:
> People get warned that it is still beta. This is honest and people will understand.
> To concentrate work on the main features like file sync, versioning, calendar, contacts. It is not a good idea to develop apps if these things do not work accurate.
>
> I also try to help cleaning the code cause I also would like to see owncloud being absolutely stable and people happy using it.
>
> My two cents.. ;)
>
> Kindly
> Matthias
> _______________________________________________
> Owncloud mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud

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Re: Controlling cron tasks

Torsten Seyffarth
In reply to this post by Bernhard Posselt
That makes sense, that the cache is the reason. How can I change the
cache directory?


Am 14.08.2013 23:30, schrieb Bernhard Posselt:

> You can change the cache directory though if you want to
>
> Torsten Seyffarth <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am using the latest version of OC on an OpenSuse 12.3 Server. I have
>> one system disk that contains the main file system and is running all
>> the time. Only some data including the data directory from OC is on a
>> separate RAID that goes inactive if nothing happens for 30 min, which is
>> most of the time for me.
>>
>> This worked fine until I wanted to use the News App. For this app I have
>> to switch from AJAX update method to cron, so the the news feeds can be
>> updated regularly. Unfortunately the RAID is never going to sleep then.
>> I guess it cannot be the news feeds, because they are stored in the
>> MySQL database, which is on the system disk. OC probably looks every
>> time if all files are still there, or something in that direction?
>>
>> Can somebody explain more detailed, what happens when cron.php is called
>> and if this behavior can be changed somehow, so e.g. that only the news
>> are updated and the files work as before?
>>
>> regards
>> Torsten
>> _______________________________________________
>> Owncloud mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
> _______________________________________________
> Owncloud mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud

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Re: Controlling cron tasks

Bernhard Posselt
In reply to this post by Torsten Seyffarth
https://github.com/owncloud/news/blob/master/dependencyinjection/dicontainer.php#L83 and https://github.com/owncloud/news/blob/master/dependencyinjection/dicontainer.php#L95

Torsten Seyffarth <[hidden email]> wrote:

>That makes sense, that the cache is the reason. How can I change the
>cache directory?
>
>
>Am 14.08.2013 23:30, schrieb Bernhard Posselt:
>> You can change the cache directory though if you want to
>>
>> Torsten Seyffarth <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am using the latest version of OC on an OpenSuse 12.3 Server. I have
>>> one system disk that contains the main file system and is running all
>>> the time. Only some data including the data directory from OC is on a
>>> separate RAID that goes inactive if nothing happens for 30 min, which is
>>> most of the time for me.
>>>
>>> This worked fine until I wanted to use the News App. For this app I have
>>> to switch from AJAX update method to cron, so the the news feeds can be
>>> updated regularly. Unfortunately the RAID is never going to sleep then.
>>> I guess it cannot be the news feeds, because they are stored in the
>>> MySQL database, which is on the system disk. OC probably looks every
>>> time if all files are still there, or something in that direction?
>>>
>>> Can somebody explain more detailed, what happens when cron.php is called
>>> and if this behavior can be changed somehow, so e.g. that only the news
>>> are updated and the files work as before?
>>>
>>> regards
>>> Torsten
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Owncloud mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>> _______________________________________________
>> Owncloud mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>
>_______________________________________________
>Owncloud mailing list
>[hidden email]
>https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
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Re: disappointed users

Chris-3
In reply to this post by Frank Karlitschek-3
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Re: disappointed users

Thomas Müller


Am Donnerstag, dem 15.08.2013 um 15:46 schrieb Chris:

> Hi,
>
> > On the other people with problems should help the
> > developers with good and detailed bug reports and
> > logfiles and description how to reproduce it.
>
> i think thats a huge problem at the moment:
>
> Often a user with a problem:
>
> 1. Creates an issue over at github completely ignoring
> the guidelines for contributing and/or the issue template
> 2. Posting just an "i have the same problem" and don't
> provide more infos or any needed infos at all
> 3. Thinks the community forums are the place to
> report bugs or to reach the developers
>
> I've seen many users posting their issues at the
> community forums but never answered on a
> request for more informations / logfiles or on
> the request to post their issue at the bugtracker.
>

In this case the forum moderators need to be more restrict and tell the users to
open issues on the bug tracker.

The forum is no bug reporting area - we developers generally speaking don't follow the forum.
(Just in case somebody is asking why: look at github - we have already plenty of jobs to do ;-) )

In addition I noticed that issues are actually transferred to github from the forum.
Bug thanks for this to RealRancor!


Thomas

>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://owncloud.10557.n7.nabble.com/Controlling-cron-tasks-tp10436p10443.html
> Sent from the ownCloud mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
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Re: disappointed users

Matthias
In reply to this post by Chris-3
I was in the same situation. I tried to report a bug so i decided to
post it in the forum. There is no hint that bugs should not be reportet
there and a forum is a great place for doing it. There is even a forum
"Discuss possible bugs & feature requests (You found a bug or you're
missing a major feature? Just ask and discuss)":
http://forum.owncloud.org/index.php

I haven't heard of github before and have no idea how it works. It might
be a good place for developer but normal users will avoid it. Björn send
me the link to the template, otherwise I would have never heard of it.

But everyone knows how to post topics in a forum and there can also be a
static thread about "how to report bugs". So I don't see the point why
people shouldn't report bugs there?

If somebody just posts "i have the same problem".. this is a thing to
ignore..

kindly
Matthias



======= Original message from =======
 > From: Chris <[hidden email]>
 > To : [hidden email]
 > Sent: 15.08.2013 15:46:25


> i think thats a huge problem at the moment:
>
> Often a user with a problem:
>
> 1. Creates an issue over at github completely ignoring
> the guidelines for contributing and/or the issue template
> 2. Posting just an "i have the same problem" and don't
> provide more infos or any needed infos at all
> 3. Thinks the community forums are the place to
> report bugs or to reach the developers
>
> I've seen many users posting their issues at the
> community forums but never answered on a
> request for more informations / logfiles or on
> the request to post their issue at the bugtracker.

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Re: disappointed users

Chris-3
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Re: disappointed users

Christian Buntrock
Hi everyone,


one thing mentioned above is getting lost in this discussion: OwnCloud is now at Version 5(!) but still hast problems in CORE features. I don't know what you think, but most other Software is a lot more stable below Version 1. VLC was a long time below V1 but was a lot more stable. You should really think about this. OwnCloud has so many Sync-Problems (have you read the thread about slow sync when uploading many files?). Other things like broken features (have you read the thread about not working calendar in OC?). Again: I don't want to talk about reading stuff in the forums or not. I agree that the forums are not the right place. My point is the fact that OC is not stable now and you guys call it Version 5. That is the main problem. At the moment I do not recommend OC to friends or other people due to slow speed and too much bugs. So I really can understand all those dissappointed users: They download software and it is not stable. It is really annoying for users if they sp
 end time on installing software and then find out it is not working well. It is better to read "be careful with your data, it is still beta". Most people will understand this and they won't become angry because of data loss. Also they will understand why things are slow sometime.


Regarding the Bug Posting: It is also not that easy because it is hard to find the template. Users (as mentioned above) do not know github (and Admins are also users in this context because they are not developers). So you should ask yourself how to make it easier for them. This way you will get more bug posts and more information about your own software.


These main things (stable working core features and easier bug posting) are mandatory for the future success of OC!


Regards
Christian

________________________________________
From: [hidden email] on behalf of Chris
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 4:25 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Owncloud] disappointed users

Hi Matthias,

> There is even a forum "Discuss possible bugs & feature requests
>(You found a bug or you're missing a major feature? Just ask and discuss

unfortunately this is not that clear. AFAIK the forums there should be
used to discuss possible bugs if you're unsure if it is a real but.

There is also a big red box called "Forums rules" which states:

-------
Forum rules
We use this forum to discuss about bugs and feature requests.
If you are sure you found a bug or have a good feature request:
Don't hesitate and use our github issue
tracker at https://github.com/owncloud/core/issues
-------

>So I don't see the point why people shouldn't report bugs there?

The point was posted by Thomas above. Additional its not easy
to track bugs in a forums. The github bugtracker is perfect for
this kind of bugtracking and reporting.



--
View this message in context: http://owncloud.10557.n7.nabble.com/Controlling-cron-tasks-tp10436p10446.html
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Re: disappointed users

Kari Koskinen
>>So I don't see the point why people shouldn't report bugs there?
>
> The point was posted by Thomas above. Additional its not easy
> to track bugs in a forums. The github bugtracker is perfect for
> this kind of bugtracking and reporting.
Hmm, it seems to require user to create an account. Not everyone wants
to create one more account for just a few bugs.
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Re: disappointed users

Thomas Wanderer
In reply to this post by Matthias
Am 15.08.2013 17:21, schrieb Matthias:
> I was in the same situation. I tried to report a bug so i decided to
> post it in the forum. There is no hint that bugs should not be reportet
> there and a forum is a great place for doing it. There is even a forum
> "Discuss possible bugs & feature requests (You found a bug or you're
> missing a major feature? Just ask and discuss)":
> http://forum.owncloud.org/index.php
>
Just an Idea...

Why not having a "Report issue formular" on the forum which uses a
GitHub guest account and requests the user to fill in at least some
details and descriptions. This eases it for users to submit issues that
end up at the right place and OC benefits from more detailed issue
descriptions and less complaining about bugs not taken serious.

I'm not too familiar with GitHub's issue tracker, but we do something
like this in our webclients as a sort of customer feedback button.

Thomas

PS: I love the vision of OC but also still hesistate to use it (beside
some trying out sessions). My opinioin also is that the core features
must be 100% stable before adding a lot of cool features on top of it


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Re: disappointed users

Daniel Molkentin
In reply to this post by Kari Koskinen
On 08/16/2013 11:41 AM, Kari Koskinen wrote:
>>> So I don't see the point why people shouldn't report bugs there?
>> The point was posted by Thomas above. Additional its not easy
>> to track bugs in a forums. The github bugtracker is perfect for
>> this kind of bugtracking and reporting.
> Hmm, it seems to require user to create an account. Not everyone wants
> to create one more account for just a few bugs.
Reporting bugs requires commitment: developers will get back at you to
ask questions, because often the reported issues cannot be resolved. So
it's not about "just reporting a few bugs". Given that, I think the two
minutes that it takes to create an account pale in comparison of writing
the actual report and answering to follow ups. Note that whatever other
system we use (including the forums!) we require a login, since we would
otherwise drown in spam.

Cheers,
   Daniel


--
www.owncloud.com - Your Data, Your Cloud, Your Way!

ownCloud GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, Holger Dyroff
Schloßäckerstrasse 26a, 90443 Nürnberg, HRB 28050 (AG Nürnberg)

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Re: disappointed users

Daniel Molkentin
In reply to this post by Thomas Wanderer
On 08/16/2013 11:44 AM, Thomas Wanderer wrote:
> Just an Idea...
>
> Why not having a "Report issue formular" on the forum which uses a
> GitHub guest account and requests the user to fill in at least some
> details and descriptions. This eases it for users to submit issues
> that end up at the right place and OC benefits from more detailed
> issue descriptions and less complaining about bugs not taken serious.
>
Without being able to reach the reporter, most bug reports are
worthless, because the reports are incomplete, or we can't reproduce
them due to a slightly different environments.

Cheers,
   Daniel

--
www.owncloud.com - Your Data, Your Cloud, Your Way!

ownCloud GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, Holger Dyroff
Schloßäckerstrasse 26a, 90443 Nürnberg, HRB 28050 (AG Nürnberg)

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Re: disappointed users

Jan-Christoph Borchardt-4
In reply to this post by Christian Buntrock
Folks,


On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 10:45 AM, christian <[hidden email]> wrote:
> one thing mentioned above is getting lost in this discussion: OwnCloud is now at Version 5(!) but still hast problems in CORE features. I don't know what you think, but most other Software is a lot more stable below Version 1. VLC was a long time below V1 but was a lot more stable. You should really think about this. OwnCloud has so many Sync-Problems (have you read the thread about slow sync when uploading many files?). Other things like broken features (have you read the thread about not working calendar in OC?). Again: I don't want to talk about reading stuff in the forums or not. I agree that the forums are not the right place. My point is the fact that OC is not stable now and you guys call it Version 5. That is the main problem. At the moment I do not recommend OC to friends or other people due to slow speed and too much bugs. So I really can understand all those dissappointed users: They download software and it is not stable. It is really annoying for users if they sp
>  end time on installing software and then find out it is not working well. It is better to read "be careful with your data, it is still beta". Most people will understand this and they won't become angry because of data loss. Also they will understand why things are slow sometime.


Well, we know there are problems of course. But we also get enought
reports of everything working perfectly. Of course not as many as the
problem reports because there’s nothing to say when everything is
fine.
Oftentimes issues are caused by strange server setups which we can not
feasibly test, or just a wrong server configuration. To detect and fix
that we need active help. Sorry, but complaining on the mailing list
mostly discourages and does not really help. Come over to Github, test
ownCloud regularly with your setup, write tests, whatever you can do
to help.



> Regarding the Bug Posting: It is also not that easy because it is hard to find the template. Users (as mentioned above) do not know github (and Admins are also users in this context because they are not developers). So you should ask yourself how to make it easier for them. This way you will get more bug posts and more information about your own software.


When you go to report an issue on
http://github.com/owncloud/core/issues/new, there is a notice directly
above the input for pointing you to the contribution guidelines and
issue template. Just the other weekend I went through a whole bunch of
old issues which were completely useless to us because the people were
»just quickly reporting an issue« and had no additional info on how to
reproduce and never returned.

As for the »it’s difficult to register an account on Github« – it’s
the same for the forum … if you really care about helping us fix
issues in ownCloud then register on Github and report issues there
properly, end of story.

As Daniel said, reporting issues requires commitment too, so we can
solve it _together_. It’s not just about letting us know there’s an
issue, but also about helping us solve it.


Thank you! :)
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Re: disappointed users

Christian Buntrock
In reply to this post by Daniel Molkentin
I really don't agree. Many users don't want to spend too much time and there is no need for commitment to report a bug. Sure all users committing to OC are welcome and very helpful. But if you want more detailed reports you should make reporting bugs easier to get more information. I don't see the danger of spam here. At the moment I feel that you already lost information because people don't want to register at Github for this.


Regards
Christian


________________________________________
From: [hidden email] on behalf of Daniel Molkentin
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 11:49 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Owncloud] disappointed users

On 08/16/2013 11:41 AM, Kari Koskinen wrote:
>>> So I don't see the point why people shouldn't report bugs there?
>> The point was posted by Thomas above. Additional its not easy
>> to track bugs in a forums. The github bugtracker is perfect for
>> this kind of bugtracking and reporting.
> Hmm, it seems to require user to create an account. Not everyone wants
> to create one more account for just a few bugs.
Reporting bugs requires commitment: developers will get back at you to
ask questions, because often the reported issues cannot be resolved. So
it's not about "just reporting a few bugs". Given that, I think the two
minutes that it takes to create an account pale in comparison of writing
the actual report and answering to follow ups. Note that whatever other
system we use (including the forums!) we require a login, since we would
otherwise drown in spam.

Cheers,
   Daniel


--
www.owncloud.com - Your Data, Your Cloud, Your Way!

ownCloud GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, Holger Dyroff
Schloßäckerstrasse 26a, 90443 Nürnberg, HRB 28050 (AG Nürnberg)

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Re: disappointed users

david-2
In reply to this post by Thomas Wanderer
Hi,

I thought I'd chip in because I've watched and contributed to a few
other OS projects in the past, and I've this current discussion crop up
in every one of them.

Part of the 'price' you have to pay for using Open Source software is
that you need to pay back and contribute by reporting bugs and issues.
To do it properly necessarily requires a bit of commitment. But if you
want to see your problem fixed ASAP, you have to help out.

I, too, can see that OC is still very much a developing product, even
though the core functionality - a Web interface to file storage space -
is working fairly well for me.

But - obviously - there's a lot of other functionality that is still in
alpha/beta/first release form. Hardly surprising when you consider the
complexities of the problem OC addresses, and the variety of add-on
functionality in development.

For instance, I'm watching and waiting for progress on the multimedia
playback.

Plus, me too, I'm closely watching the desktop sync client. But imagine
how development is complicated by the need to develop for a variety of
very different platforms. So it's not really surprising that 'stability'
is taking time to accomplish.

I'm very impressed with the regularity that the devs release new
versions and the number of bugs that get squashed. This really is a live
and seriously-supported software.

However, you have to have realistic and patient expectations with a
project like this one. I'm guessing that a lot of progress will have
been achieved in the next year. But it still doesn't discourage me from
using OC now, even for work with clients. You just have to remember that
there are no guarantees being offered about complete reliability and
readiness for mission-critical needs, and you have to have back-up
solutions ready in case problems arise. Nonetheless, like Linux itself
(for instance), OC will gradually arrive at full maturity, I'm sure.

And you do have to remember that 'free' software does have a price, if
you want it to thrive and grow: you need to help out if you can - at
least by contributing to bug reporting, and by understanding the devs'
needs in terms of detail and info.

2 cents, ;-)

David
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Re: disappointed users

Matthias
In reply to this post by Jan-Christoph Borchardt-4
> Oftentimes issues are caused by strange server setups which we can not
> feasibly test, or just a wrong server configuration. To detect and fix
> that we need active help. Sorry, but complaining on the mailing list
> mostly discourages and does not really help.

I don't think he is complaining. In my opinion he is absolutely right.
It is only this problem:

- Vers 5.x suggest the software is stable
- harsh bugs in the core will result in data loss -> it is not stable

Unfortunately it is not a result of strange server setup. I don't want
to discourage. I wan't to point things that are very imporant in my opinion.

kindly
Matthias
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