OwnCloud Android App Open Source or Not?

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OwnCloud Android App Open Source or Not?

Kelvin Hammond
I'm wanting to add CalDav and CardDav support to the android owncloud app and maybe some other features should I have the time to do so.

The problem I'm running into now is that the app is for sale on the android market instead of free even though its open source.

I've paid for the app on the market already only to find that it doesn't support contacts or calendar sync which is what I bought it for.

I'd have no problem doing it for free if the app was free but seeing as how the app isn't free who does the money go to?

If I add these features am I allowed to fork the owncloud app and put it on sale on the android market?

--
Thank you,
Kelvin Hammond

_______________________________________________
Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
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Re: OwnCloud Android App Open Source or Not?

Frank Karlitschek-3
Hi Kelvin,


On 29.08.2013, at 21:36, Kelvin Hammond <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm wanting to add CalDav and CardDav support to the android owncloud app and maybe some other features should I have the time to do so.
>
> The problem I'm running into now is that the app is for sale on the android market instead of free even though its open source.

This is not an contradiction. The app is open source but also cost $0.99 in the store.
The money is used to pay for some of the development that goes into the app. If you don't want to spend one dollar than you can grab the source code from github, compile it yourself and put it on you device. But I think it's friendly to support the development with $0.99


> I've paid for the app on the market already only to find that it doesn't support contacts or calendar sync which is what I bought it for.

Sorry for that. I think it was in the app description that it support access to files but no contacts/calendar syncing yet.


> I'd have no problem doing it for free if the app was free but seeing as how the app isn't free who does the money go to?

The money goes to the developers who write this open source app.


> If I add these features am I allowed to fork the owncloud app and put it on sale on the android market?

You are allowed to do that. It is is open source so you can fork it if you want. But I would recommend to not do that but to contribute to the existing app. The ownCloud community is friendly and open for new contributors, ideas and code. So I would recommend to look at the code on github and submit your extension and pull request. It's better to work together instead of duplicate work.

Thanks a lot and let me know if you have any questions.


Cheers
Frank



>
> --
> Thank you,
> Kelvin Hammond
> _______________________________________________
> Owncloud mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud

_______________________________________________
Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
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Re: OwnCloud Android App Open Source or Not?

Jan-Christoph Borchardt-4
In addition to what Frank said, you might find this article on
»Selling Free Software« interesting:
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

»Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU Project is that you
should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that
you should charge as little as possible — just enough to cover the
cost. This is a misunderstanding.
Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge
as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please
read on.«


It’s similar if you look at some of the other apps interacting with
ownCloud, notably the mobile apps for the News reader.
There’s the Android app by David:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.luhmer.owncloudnewsreader
And the iOS app by Peter: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iocnews/id683859706
I think it’s great that they develop both open source, and charge for
them too. And it’s worth it because the apps are really good!


So please be welcome and contribute: http://github.com/owncloud/android :)



On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Frank Karlitschek <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Kelvin,
>
>
> On 29.08.2013, at 21:36, Kelvin Hammond <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I'm wanting to add CalDav and CardDav support to the android owncloud app and maybe some other features should I have the time to do so.
>>
>> The problem I'm running into now is that the app is for sale on the android market instead of free even though its open source.
>
> This is not an contradiction. The app is open source but also cost $0.99 in the store.
> The money is used to pay for some of the development that goes into the app. If you don't want to spend one dollar than you can grab the source code from github, compile it yourself and put it on you device. But I think it's friendly to support the development with $0.99
>
>
>> I've paid for the app on the market already only to find that it doesn't support contacts or calendar sync which is what I bought it for.
>
> Sorry for that. I think it was in the app description that it support access to files but no contacts/calendar syncing yet.
>
>
>> I'd have no problem doing it for free if the app was free but seeing as how the app isn't free who does the money go to?
>
> The money goes to the developers who write this open source app.
>
>
>> If I add these features am I allowed to fork the owncloud app and put it on sale on the android market?
>
> You are allowed to do that. It is is open source so you can fork it if you want. But I would recommend to not do that but to contribute to the existing app. The ownCloud community is friendly and open for new contributors, ideas and code. So I would recommend to look at the code on github and submit your extension and pull request. It's better to work together instead of duplicate work.
>
> Thanks a lot and let me know if you have any questions.
>
>
> Cheers
> Frank
>
>
>
>>
>> --
>> Thank you,
>> Kelvin Hammond
>> _______________________________________________
>> Owncloud mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owncloud mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
_______________________________________________
Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
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Re: OwnCloud Android App Open Source or Not?

Alessandro Cosentino
Sorry to butt in on this conversation, but I believe the main point,
on which Kelvin was confused when he asked those questions on IRC, was
not addressed in this thread yet.
Let me play his advocate here. We encouraged him to not fork the
project and to rather work along the owncloud community to the
existing app.
And yes, almost all of us agree that "Selling free software" is the
right thing to do.
But his point (at least on IRC) was: if I help with coding, will I get
a percentage of the money that users pay for the app?
If not, who gets the money?
On IRC we weren't able to address these questions.

Alessandro


On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 3:09 AM, Jan-Christoph Borchardt
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> In addition to what Frank said, you might find this article on
> »Selling Free Software« interesting:
> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
>
> »Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU Project is that you
> should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that
> you should charge as little as possible — just enough to cover the
> cost. This is a misunderstanding.
> Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge
> as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please
> read on.«
>
>
> It’s similar if you look at some of the other apps interacting with
> ownCloud, notably the mobile apps for the News reader.
> There’s the Android app by David:
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.luhmer.owncloudnewsreader
> And the iOS app by Peter: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iocnews/id683859706
> I think it’s great that they develop both open source, and charge for
> them too. And it’s worth it because the apps are really good!
>
>
> So please be welcome and contribute: http://github.com/owncloud/android :)
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Frank Karlitschek <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Kelvin,
>>
>>
>> On 29.08.2013, at 21:36, Kelvin Hammond <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm wanting to add CalDav and CardDav support to the android owncloud app and maybe some other features should I have the time to do so.
>>>
>>> The problem I'm running into now is that the app is for sale on the android market instead of free even though its open source.
>>
>> This is not an contradiction. The app is open source but also cost $0.99 in the store.
>> The money is used to pay for some of the development that goes into the app. If you don't want to spend one dollar than you can grab the source code from github, compile it yourself and put it on you device. But I think it's friendly to support the development with $0.99
>>
>>
>>> I've paid for the app on the market already only to find that it doesn't support contacts or calendar sync which is what I bought it for.
>>
>> Sorry for that. I think it was in the app description that it support access to files but no contacts/calendar syncing yet.
>>
>>
>>> I'd have no problem doing it for free if the app was free but seeing as how the app isn't free who does the money go to?
>>
>> The money goes to the developers who write this open source app.
>>
>>
>>> If I add these features am I allowed to fork the owncloud app and put it on sale on the android market?
>>
>> You are allowed to do that. It is is open source so you can fork it if you want. But I would recommend to not do that but to contribute to the existing app. The ownCloud community is friendly and open for new contributors, ideas and code. So I would recommend to look at the code on github and submit your extension and pull request. It's better to work together instead of duplicate work.
>>
>> Thanks a lot and let me know if you have any questions.
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thank you,
>>> Kelvin Hammond
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Owncloud mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Owncloud mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
> _______________________________________________
> Owncloud mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
_______________________________________________
Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
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Re: OwnCloud Android App Open Source or Not?

Randolph Carter
Exactly the point which I wanted to raise as well. In my opinion, in
such a case as the owncloud app it needs to be clear where the money
goes exactly. Because why should someone work on something where
*somebody else* earns money for it?

It's not the contributing itself which is in question here; nor the fact
that there's no money for it - I think we all know that the real benefit
and reward of working on Open Source software lie somewhere else than in
money. However, if contributing means helping someone else to earn
money, without getting any oneself, that has the potential to squash any
motivation for contributing for free.

I don't argue that open source software cannot also be sold. I just want
to make the point that in the best interest of keeping everybody
interested in contributing, transparency of any such money flows is crucial!

Randolph

On 2013-08-30 15:06, Alessandro Cosentino wrote:

> Sorry to butt in on this conversation, but I believe the main point,
> on which Kelvin was confused when he asked those questions on IRC, was
> not addressed in this thread yet.
> Let me play his advocate here. We encouraged him to not fork the
> project and to rather work along the owncloud community to the
> existing app.
> And yes, almost all of us agree that "Selling free software" is the
> right thing to do.
> But his point (at least on IRC) was: if I help with coding, will I get
> a percentage of the money that users pay for the app?
> If not, who gets the money?
> On IRC we weren't able to address these questions.
>
> Alessandro
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 3:09 AM, Jan-Christoph Borchardt
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> In addition to what Frank said, you might find this article on
>> »Selling Free Software« interesting:
>> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
>>
>> »Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU Project is that you
>> should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that
>> you should charge as little as possible — just enough to cover the
>> cost. This is a misunderstanding.
>> Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge
>> as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please
>> read on.«
>>
>>
>> It’s similar if you look at some of the other apps interacting with
>> ownCloud, notably the mobile apps for the News reader.
>> There’s the Android app by David:
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.luhmer.owncloudnewsreader
>> And the iOS app by Peter: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iocnews/id683859706
>> I think it’s great that they develop both open source, and charge for
>> them too. And it’s worth it because the apps are really good!
>>
>>
>> So please be welcome and contribute: http://github.com/owncloud/android :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Frank Karlitschek <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi Kelvin,
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29.08.2013, at 21:36, Kelvin Hammond <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm wanting to add CalDav and CardDav support to the android owncloud app and maybe some other features should I have the time to do so.
>>>>
>>>> The problem I'm running into now is that the app is for sale on the android market instead of free even though its open source.
>>>
>>> This is not an contradiction. The app is open source but also cost $0.99 in the store.
>>> The money is used to pay for some of the development that goes into the app. If you don't want to spend one dollar than you can grab the source code from github, compile it yourself and put it on you device. But I think it's friendly to support the development with $0.99
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've paid for the app on the market already only to find that it doesn't support contacts or calendar sync which is what I bought it for.
>>>
>>> Sorry for that. I think it was in the app description that it support access to files but no contacts/calendar syncing yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'd have no problem doing it for free if the app was free but seeing as how the app isn't free who does the money go to?
>>>
>>> The money goes to the developers who write this open source app.
>>>
>>>
>>>> If I add these features am I allowed to fork the owncloud app and put it on sale on the android market?
>>>
>>> You are allowed to do that. It is is open source so you can fork it if you want. But I would recommend to not do that but to contribute to the existing app. The ownCloud community is friendly and open for new contributors, ideas and code. So I would recommend to look at the code on github and submit your extension and pull request. It's better to work together instead of duplicate work.
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot and let me know if you have any questions.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Kelvin Hammond
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Owncloud mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Owncloud mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>> _______________________________________________
>> Owncloud mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
> _______________________________________________
> Owncloud mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>
_______________________________________________
Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
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Re: OwnCloud Android App Open Source or Not?

Thomas Müller

Am Freitag, dem 30.08.2013 um 17:12 schrieb Randolph Carter:
> Exactly the point which I wanted to raise as well. In my opinion, in
> such a case as the owncloud app it needs to be clear where the money
> goes exactly. Because why should someone work on something where
> *somebody else* earns money for it?
>

The money goes to ownCloud Inc.
And in return ownCloud Inc. is sponsoring the community:
- hotel and travel for the yearly dev meeting
- at least one dinner, foot and drinks at the dev meeting
- server infrastructure like Jenkins + administration of hard- and software
- on request software and hardware access to community members
  (e.g. Thomas Tanghus needed a Windows System with outlook for testing some contacts plugin issue)

I think at the end the community is getting back the value to some extend.

Tom
 

> It's not the contributing itself which is in question here; nor the fact
> that there's no money for it - I think we all know that the real benefit
> and reward of working on Open Source software lie somewhere else than in
> money. However, if contributing means helping someone else to earn
> money, without getting any oneself, that has the potential to squash any
> motivation for contributing for free.
>
> I don't argue that open source software cannot also be sold. I just want
> to make the point that in the best interest of keeping everybody
> interested in contributing, transparency of any such money flows is crucial!
>
> Randolph
>
> On 2013-08-30 15:06, Alessandro Cosentino wrote:
> > Sorry to butt in on this conversation, but I believe the main point,
> > on which Kelvin was confused when he asked those questions on IRC, was
> > not addressed in this thread yet.
> > Let me play his advocate here. We encouraged him to not fork the
> > project and to rather work along the owncloud community to the
> > existing app.
> > And yes, almost all of us agree that "Selling free software" is the
> > right thing to do.
> > But his point (at least on IRC) was: if I help with coding, will I get
> > a percentage of the money that users pay for the app?
> > If not, who gets the money?
> > On IRC we weren't able to address these questions.
> >
> > Alessandro
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 3:09 AM, Jan-Christoph Borchardt
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> In addition to what Frank said, you might find this article on
> >> »Selling Free Software« interesting:
> >> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
> >>
> >> »Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU Project is that you
> >> should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that
> >> you should charge as little as possible — just enough to cover the
> >> cost. This is a misunderstanding.
> >> Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge
> >> as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please
> >> read on.«
> >>
> >>
> >> It’s similar if you look at some of the other apps interacting with
> >> ownCloud, notably the mobile apps for the News reader.
> >> There’s the Android app by David:
> >> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.luhmer.owncloudnewsreader
> >> And the iOS app by Peter: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iocnews/id683859706
> >> I think it’s great that they develop both open source, and charge for
> >> them too. And it’s worth it because the apps are really good!
> >>
> >>
> >> So please be welcome and contribute: http://github.com/owncloud/android :)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Frank Karlitschek <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> Hi Kelvin,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 29.08.2013, at 21:36, Kelvin Hammond <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I'm wanting to add CalDav and CardDav support to the android owncloud app and maybe some other features should I have the time to do so.
> >>>>
> >>>> The problem I'm running into now is that the app is for sale on the android market instead of free even though its open source.
> >>>
> >>> This is not an contradiction. The app is open source but also cost $0.99 in the store.
> >>> The money is used to pay for some of the development that goes into the app. If you don't want to spend one dollar than you can grab the source code from github, compile it yourself and put it on you device. But I think it's friendly to support the development with $0.99
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I've paid for the app on the market already only to find that it doesn't support contacts or calendar sync which is what I bought it for.
> >>>
> >>> Sorry for that. I think it was in the app description that it support access to files but no contacts/calendar syncing yet.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I'd have no problem doing it for free if the app was free but seeing as how the app isn't free who does the money go to?
> >>>
> >>> The money goes to the developers who write this open source app.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> If I add these features am I allowed to fork the owncloud app and put it on sale on the android market?
> >>>
> >>> You are allowed to do that. It is is open source so you can fork it if you want. But I would recommend to not do that but to contribute to the existing app. The ownCloud community is friendly and open for new contributors, ideas and code. So I would recommend to look at the code on github and submit your extension and pull request. It's better to work together instead of duplicate work.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks a lot and let me know if you have any questions.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Frank
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Thank you,
> >>>> Kelvin Hammond
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Owncloud mailing list
> >>>> [hidden email]
> >>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Owncloud mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Owncloud mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
> > _______________________________________________
> > Owncloud mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Owncloud mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
_______________________________________________
Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
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Re: OwnCloud Android App Open Source or Not?

hippykilla
In reply to this post by Randolph Carter

Is it not permissible to compile your own app with your own contributions and sell yourself? If you add some great features to the app and maybe change the UI a bit you can sell a different version of the app yourself as long as you make your improvement and code availble to the community for free.  This is beauty of open source.  I have my own app that has features I built but they are features specific to ne and my company so I dobt sell them but, I could sell ny app too. Diversity and choice is terrific.  We need more than one app anyway.  Build away and I will be first in line to buy the app.

On Aug 30, 2013 8:12 AM, "Randolph Carter" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Exactly the point which I wanted to raise as well. In my opinion, in
such a case as the owncloud app it needs to be clear where the money
goes exactly. Because why should someone work on something where
*somebody else* earns money for it?

It's not the contributing itself which is in question here; nor the fact
that there's no money for it - I think we all know that the real benefit
and reward of working on Open Source software lie somewhere else than in
money. However, if contributing means helping someone else to earn
money, without getting any oneself, that has the potential to squash any
motivation for contributing for free.

I don't argue that open source software cannot also be sold. I just want
to make the point that in the best interest of keeping everybody
interested in contributing, transparency of any such money flows is crucial!

Randolph

On 2013-08-30 15:06, Alessandro Cosentino wrote:
> Sorry to butt in on this conversation, but I believe the main point,
> on which Kelvin was confused when he asked those questions on IRC, was
> not addressed in this thread yet.
> Let me play his advocate here. We encouraged him to not fork the
> project and to rather work along the owncloud community to the
> existing app.
> And yes, almost all of us agree that "Selling free software" is the
> right thing to do.
> But his point (at least on IRC) was: if I help with coding, will I get
> a percentage of the money that users pay for the app?
> If not, who gets the money?
> On IRC we weren't able to address these questions.
>
> Alessandro
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 3:09 AM, Jan-Christoph Borchardt
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> In addition to what Frank said, you might find this article on
>> »Selling Free Software« interesting:
>> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
>>
>> »Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU Project is that you
>> should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that
>> you should charge as little as possible — just enough to cover the
>> cost. This is a misunderstanding.
>> Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge
>> as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please
>> read on.«
>>
>>
>> It’s similar if you look at some of the other apps interacting with
>> ownCloud, notably the mobile apps for the News reader.
>> There’s the Android app by David:
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.luhmer.owncloudnewsreader
>> And the iOS app by Peter: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iocnews/id683859706
>> I think it’s great that they develop both open source, and charge for
>> them too. And it’s worth it because the apps are really good!
>>
>>
>> So please be welcome and contribute: http://github.com/owncloud/android :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Frank Karlitschek <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi Kelvin,
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29.08.2013, at 21:36, Kelvin Hammond <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm wanting to add CalDav and CardDav support to the android owncloud app and maybe some other features should I have the time to do so.
>>>>
>>>> The problem I'm running into now is that the app is for sale on the android market instead of free even though its open source.
>>>
>>> This is not an contradiction. The app is open source but also cost $0.99 in the store.
>>> The money is used to pay for some of the development that goes into the app. If you don't want to spend one dollar than you can grab the source code from github, compile it yourself and put it on you device. But I think it's friendly to support the development with $0.99
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've paid for the app on the market already only to find that it doesn't support contacts or calendar sync which is what I bought it for.
>>>
>>> Sorry for that. I think it was in the app description that it support access to files but no contacts/calendar syncing yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'd have no problem doing it for free if the app was free but seeing as how the app isn't free who does the money go to?
>>>
>>> The money goes to the developers who write this open source app.
>>>
>>>
>>>> If I add these features am I allowed to fork the owncloud app and put it on sale on the android market?
>>>
>>> You are allowed to do that. It is is open source so you can fork it if you want. But I would recommend to not do that but to contribute to the existing app. The ownCloud community is friendly and open for new contributors, ideas and code. So I would recommend to look at the code on github and submit your extension and pull request. It's better to work together instead of duplicate work.
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot and let me know if you have any questions.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Kelvin Hammond
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Owncloud mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Owncloud mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>> _______________________________________________
>> Owncloud mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
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> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>
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Re: OwnCloud Android App Open Source or Not?

Alessandro Cosentino
@Tom: great points! Maybe we should write those points somewhere more
explicitly, like on the Google play store page?

Alessandro

On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Derek Broes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is it not permissible to compile your own app with your own contributions
> and sell yourself? If you add some great features to the app and maybe
> change the UI a bit you can sell a different version of the app yourself as
> long as you make your improvement and code availble to the community for
> free.  This is beauty of open source.  I have my own app that has features I
> built but they are features specific to ne and my company so I dobt sell
> them but, I could sell ny app too. Diversity and choice is terrific.  We
> need more than one app anyway.  Build away and I will be first in line to
> buy the app.
>
> On Aug 30, 2013 8:12 AM, "Randolph Carter" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Exactly the point which I wanted to raise as well. In my opinion, in
>> such a case as the owncloud app it needs to be clear where the money
>> goes exactly. Because why should someone work on something where
>> *somebody else* earns money for it?
>>
>> It's not the contributing itself which is in question here; nor the fact
>> that there's no money for it - I think we all know that the real benefit
>> and reward of working on Open Source software lie somewhere else than in
>> money. However, if contributing means helping someone else to earn
>> money, without getting any oneself, that has the potential to squash any
>> motivation for contributing for free.
>>
>> I don't argue that open source software cannot also be sold. I just want
>> to make the point that in the best interest of keeping everybody
>> interested in contributing, transparency of any such money flows is
>> crucial!
>>
>> Randolph
>>
>> On 2013-08-30 15:06, Alessandro Cosentino wrote:
>> > Sorry to butt in on this conversation, but I believe the main point,
>> > on which Kelvin was confused when he asked those questions on IRC, was
>> > not addressed in this thread yet.
>> > Let me play his advocate here. We encouraged him to not fork the
>> > project and to rather work along the owncloud community to the
>> > existing app.
>> > And yes, almost all of us agree that "Selling free software" is the
>> > right thing to do.
>> > But his point (at least on IRC) was: if I help with coding, will I get
>> > a percentage of the money that users pay for the app?
>> > If not, who gets the money?
>> > On IRC we weren't able to address these questions.
>> >
>> > Alessandro
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 3:09 AM, Jan-Christoph Borchardt
>> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> In addition to what Frank said, you might find this article on
>> >> »Selling Free Software« interesting:
>> >> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
>> >>
>> >> »Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU Project is that you
>> >> should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that
>> >> you should charge as little as possible — just enough to cover the
>> >> cost. This is a misunderstanding.
>> >> Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge
>> >> as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please
>> >> read on.«
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It’s similar if you look at some of the other apps interacting with
>> >> ownCloud, notably the mobile apps for the News reader.
>> >> There’s the Android app by David:
>> >>
>> >> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.luhmer.owncloudnewsreader
>> >> And the iOS app by Peter:
>> >> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iocnews/id683859706
>> >> I think it’s great that they develop both open source, and charge for
>> >> them too. And it’s worth it because the apps are really good!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So please be welcome and contribute: http://github.com/owncloud/android
>> >> :)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Frank Karlitschek
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>> Hi Kelvin,
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 29.08.2013, at 21:36, Kelvin Hammond <[hidden email]>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I'm wanting to add CalDav and CardDav support to the android owncloud
>> >>>> app and maybe some other features should I have the time to do so.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The problem I'm running into now is that the app is for sale on the
>> >>>> android market instead of free even though its open source.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is not an contradiction. The app is open source but also cost
>> >>> $0.99 in the store.
>> >>> The money is used to pay for some of the development that goes into
>> >>> the app. If you don't want to spend one dollar than you can grab the source
>> >>> code from github, compile it yourself and put it on you device. But I think
>> >>> it's friendly to support the development with $0.99
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> I've paid for the app on the market already only to find that it
>> >>>> doesn't support contacts or calendar sync which is what I bought it for.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sorry for that. I think it was in the app description that it support
>> >>> access to files but no contacts/calendar syncing yet.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> I'd have no problem doing it for free if the app was free but seeing
>> >>>> as how the app isn't free who does the money go to?
>> >>>
>> >>> The money goes to the developers who write this open source app.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> If I add these features am I allowed to fork the owncloud app and put
>> >>>> it on sale on the android market?
>> >>>
>> >>> You are allowed to do that. It is is open source so you can fork it if
>> >>> you want. But I would recommend to not do that but to contribute to the
>> >>> existing app. The ownCloud community is friendly and open for new
>> >>> contributors, ideas and code. So I would recommend to look at the code on
>> >>> github and submit your extension and pull request. It's better to work
>> >>> together instead of duplicate work.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks a lot and let me know if you have any questions.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers
>> >>> Frank
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Thank you,
>> >>>> Kelvin Hammond
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Owncloud mailing list
>> >>>> [hidden email]
>> >>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Owncloud mailing list
>> >>> [hidden email]
>> >>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Owncloud mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Owncloud mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Owncloud mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owncloud mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: OwnCloud Android App Open Source or Not?

Randolph Carter
Hi,

thanks very much indeed for the detailed explanation. And I agree that such information in the app description would be good, and I guess that it could motivate one or the other who otherwise wouldn't buy the app, to actually do so!

Best regards,
Randolph



Alessandro Cosentino <[hidden email]> schrieb:
@Tom: great points! Maybe we should write those points somewhere more
explicitly, like on the Google play store page?

Alessandro

On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Derek Broes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Is it not permissible to compile your own app with your own contributions
and sell yourself? If you add some great features to the app and maybe
change the UI a bit you can sell a different version of the app yourself as
long as you make your improvement and code availble to the community for
free. This is beauty of open source. I have my own app that has features I
built but they are features specific to ne and my company so I dobt sell
them but, I could sell ny app too. Diversity and choice is terrific. We
need more than one app anyway. Build away and I will be first in line to
buy the app.

On Aug 30, 2013 8:12 AM, "Randolph Carter" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Exactly the point which I wanted to raise as well. In my opinion, in
such a case as the owncloud app it needs to be clear where the money
goes exactly. Because why should someone work on something where
*somebody else* earns money for it?

It's not the contributing itself which is in question here; nor the fact
that there's no money for it - I think we all know that the real benefit
and reward of working on Open Source software lie somewhere else than in
money. However, if contributing means helping someone else to earn
money, without getting any oneself, that has the potential to squash any
motivation for contributing for free.

I don't argue that open source software cannot also be sold. I just want
to make the point that in the best interest of keeping everybody
interested in contributing, transparency of any such money flows is
crucial!

Randolph

On 2013-08-30 15:06, Alessandro Cosentino wrote:
Sorry to butt in on this conversation, but I believe the main point,
on which Kelvin was confused when he asked those questions on IRC, was
not addressed in this thread yet.
Let me play his advocate here. We encouraged him to not fork the
project and to rather work along the owncloud community to the
existing app.
And yes, almost all of us agree that "Selling free software" is the
right thing to do.
But his point (at least on IRC) was: if I help with coding, will I get
a percentage of the money that users pay for the app?
If not, who gets the money?
On IRC we weren't able to address these questions.

Alessandro


On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 3:09 AM, Jan-Christoph Borchardt
<[hidden email]> wrote:
In addition to what Frank said, you might find this article on
»Selling Free Software« interesting:
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

»Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU Project is that you
should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that
you should charge as little as possible — just enough to cover the
cost. This is a misunderstanding.
Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge
as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please
read on.«


It’s similar if you look at some of the other apps interacting with
ownCloud, notably the mobile apps for the News reader.
There’s the Android app by David:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.luhmer.owncloudnewsreader
And the iOS app by Peter:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iocnews/id683859706
I think it’s great that they develop both open source, and charge for
them too. And it’s worth it because the apps are really good!


So please be welcome and contribute: http://github.com/owncloud/android
:)



On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Frank Karlitschek
<[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Kelvin,


On 29.08.2013, at 21:36, Kelvin Hammond <[hidden email]>
wrote:

I'm wanting to add CalDav and CardDav support to the android owncloud
app and maybe some other features should I have the time to do so.

The problem I'm running into now is that the app is for sale on the
android market instead of free even though its open source.

This is not an contradiction. The app is open source but also cost
$0.99 in the store.
The money is used to pay for some of the development that goes into
the app. If you don't want to spend one dollar than you can grab the source
code from github, compile it yourself and put it on you device. But I think
it's friendly to support the development with $0.99


I've paid for the app on the market already only to find that it
doesn't support contacts or calendar sync which is what I bought it for.

Sorry for that. I think it was in the app description that it support
access to files but no contacts/calendar syncing yet.


I'd have no problem doing it for free if the app was free but seeing
as how the app isn't free who does the money go to?

The money goes to the developers who write this open source app.


If I add these features am I allowed to fork the owncloud app and put
it on sale on the android market?

You are allowed to do that. It is is open source so you can fork it if
you want. But I would recommend to not do that but to contribute to the
existing app. The ownCloud community is friendly and open for new
contributors, ideas and code. So I would recommend to look at the code on
github and submit your extension and pull request. It's better to work
together instead of duplicate work.

Thanks a lot and let me know if you have any questions.


Cheers
Frank




--
Thank you,
Kelvin Hammond


Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud



Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud


Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud


Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud



Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud




Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud



Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud

_______________________________________________
Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
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Re: OwnCloud Android App Open Source or Not?

Jan-Christoph Borchardt-4
So this sounds like a good point to add as clarification for potential community contributors on why the apps cost money and why that benefits the community.

Frank, what do you think?


On Saturday, August 31, 2013, Randolph Carter wrote:
Hi,

thanks very much indeed for the detailed explanation. And I agree that such information in the app description would be good, and I guess that it could motivate one or the other who otherwise wouldn't buy the app, to actually do so!

Best regards,
Randolph



Alessandro Cosentino <<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;cosenal@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">cosenal@...> schrieb:
@Tom: great points! Maybe we should write those points somewhere more
explicitly, like on the Google play store page?

Alessandro

On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Derek Broes <<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;derek@broes.net&#39;);" target="_blank">derek@...> wrote:
Is it not permissible to compile your own app with your own contributions
and sell yourself? If you add some great features to the app and maybe
change the UI a bit you can sell a different version of the app yourself as
long as you make your improvement and code availble to the community for
free. This is beauty of open source. I have my own app that has features I
built but they are features specific to ne and my company so I dobt sell
them but, I could sell ny app too. Diversity and choice is terrific. We
need more than one app anyway. Build away and I will be first in line to
buy the app.

On Aug 30, 2013 8:12 AM, "Randolph Carter" <<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;RandolphCarter@fantasymail.de&#39;);" target="_blank">RandolphCarter@...>
wrote:

Exactly the point which I wanted to raise as well. In my opinion, in
such a case as the owncloud app it needs to be clear where the money
goes exactly. Because why should someone work on something where
*somebody else* earns money for it?

It's not the contributing itself which is in question here; nor the fact
that there's no money for it - I think we all know that the real benefit
and reward of working on Open Source software lie somewhere else than in
money. However, if contributing means helping someone else to earn
money, without getting any oneself, that has the potential to squash any
motivation for contributing for free.

I don't argue that open source software cannot also be sold. I just want
to make the point that in the best interest of keeping everybody
interested in contributing, transparency of any such money flows is
crucial!

Randolph

On 2013-08-30 15:06, Alessandro Cosentino wrote:
Sorry to butt in on this conversation, but I believe the main point,
on which Kelvin was confused when he asked those questions on IRC, was
not addressed in this thread yet.
Let me play his advocate here. We encouraged him to not fork the
project and to rather work along the owncloud community to the
existing app.
And yes, almost all of us agree that "Selling free software" is the
right thing to do.
But his point (at least on IRC) was: if I help with coding, will I get
a percentage of the money that users pay for the app?
If not, who gets the money?
On IRC we weren't able to address these questions.

Alessandro


On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 3:09 AM, Jan-Christoph Borchardt
<<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;hey@jancborchardt.net&#39;);" target="_blank">hey@...> wrote:
In addition to what Frank said, you might find this article on
»Selling Free Software« interesting:
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

»Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU Project is that you
should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that
you should charge as little as possible — just enough to cover the
cost. This is a misunderstanding.
Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge
as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please
read on.«


It’s similar if you look at some of the other apps interacting with
ownCloud, notably the mobile apps for the News reader.
There’s the Android app by David:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.luhmer.owncloudnewsreader
And the iOS app by Peter:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iocnews/id683859706
I think it’s great that they develop both open source, and charge for
them too. And it’s worth it because the apps are really good!


So please be welcome and contribute: http://github.com/owncloud/android
:)



On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Frank Karlitschek
<<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;frank@owncloud.org&#39;);" target="_blank">frank@...> wrote:
Hi Kelvin,


On 29.08.2013, at 21:36, Kelvin Hammond <<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;hammond.kelvin@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">hammond.kelvin@...>
wrote:

I'm wanting to add CalDav and CardDav support to the android owncloud
app and maybe some other features should I have the time to do so.

The problem I'm running into now is that the app is for sale on the
android market instead of free even though its open source.

This is not an contradiction. The app is open source but also cost
$0.99 in the store.
The money is used to pay for some of the development that goes into
the app. If you don't want to spend one dollar than you can grab the source
code from github, compile it yourself and put it on you device. But I think
it's friendly to support the development with $0.99


I've paid for the app on the market already only to find that it
doesn't support contacts or calendar sync which is what I bought it for.

Sorry for that. I think it was in the app description that it support
access to files but no contacts/calendar syncing yet.


I'd have no problem doing it for free if the app was free but seeing
as how the app isn't free who does the money go to?

The money goes to the developers who write this open source app.


If I add these features am I allowed to fork the owncloud app and put
it on sale on the android market?

You are allowed to do that. It is is open source so you can fork it if
you want. But I would recommend to not do that but to contribute to the
existing app. The ownCloud community is friendly and open for new
contributors, ideas and code. So I would recommend to look at the code on
github and submit your extension and pull request. It's better to work
together instead of duplicate work.

Thanks a lot and let me know if you have any questions.


Cheers
Frank




--
Thank you,
Kelvin Hammond


Owncloud mailing list
<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;Owncloud@kde.org&#39;);" target="_blank">Owncloud@...
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud



Owncloud mailing list
<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;Owncloud@kde.org&#39;);" target="_blank">Owncloud@...
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud


Owncloud mailing list
<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;Owncloud@kde.org&#39;);" target="_blank">Owncloud@...
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud


Owncloud mailing list
<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;Owncloud@kde.org&#39;);" target="_blank">Owncloud@...
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud



Owncloud mailing list
<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;Owncloud@kde.org&#39;);" target="_blank">Owncloud@...
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud




Owncloud mailing list
<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;Owncloud@kde.org&#39;);" target="_blank">Owncloud@...
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud



Owncloud mailing list
<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;Owncloud@kde.org&#39;);" target="_blank">Owncloud@...
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud

_______________________________________________
Owncloud mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud