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Questions and ideas

Clément 'clemux' Schreiner
Hello,

I just stumbled upon the ownCloud projet, and it seems to bring solutions to a
lot of problems that have been bothering me these past months. Maybe I
overestimate the project, so I think I'll begin by exposing my expectations,
so that you can correct me if I'm wrong :).

 * bookmarks, RSS, music, and other personal data syncing
Ever since I use a laptop in addition to my desktop computer, I've been
struggling to sync data between these computers, and I don't even own a
smartphone...

For bookmarks, there are solutions like del.icio.us etc., but I don't want to
store my data on private/for profit/etc. companies's servers.
I finally discovered Mozilla Weave (https://mozillalabs.com/weave/), which made
me use firefox instead of
arora/rekonq/konqueror.
It works well, we can install our own server, so maybe its integration to a
kde browser could be a solution... But it would be even nicer if we could
share those bookmarks, just like del.icio.us...


Then, the RSS feeds: I use akregator on my laptop only, since I don't want to
subscribe to each feed twice, and I did not find solutions other than sharing
the configuration files...
Google Reader (or other services) would do it, but I don't like web
applications (plus the same previous argument for del.icio.us).
It would be nice to have a server polling RSS feeds, and then pushing them to
different readers (web apps, desktop akregator-like apps, etc).




Could those be, or are they already, projects for ownCloud?


 * Decentralized social networking
I'm concerned with the growing centralization of data in the hands of a few
private companies (Facebook, Yahoo, Microsoft, and worst of all, Google). By
data, I mean email, IM, blogging, microblogging, photos, ...

Could a solution to that be part of ownCloud, or is that completely off-topic?
No page on the wiki or discussion of this list does mention that, but if I did
not misunderstand it, Frank spoke about that in his keynote
(http://www.socialdesktop.org/kdeandthecloud.pdf).

For example, I have in mind something like "aptitude install owncloud-
blogging" which would automagically install and setup a blogging system
(Wordpress, Dotclear, whatever) and would give the user the url of the blog on
his own server, where he could start writing, just as easily as if he had
signed up to Blogger.


This would of course extend to email server, IM server, etc.



If any of that could be part of ownCloud, I'd be happy to develop and start
implementing these ideas :)


Cheers

--
Cl?ment Schreiner

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Questions and ideas

Frank Karlitschek



On 25.03.2010, at 00:51, Cl?ment 'clemux' Schreiner wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I just stumbled upon the ownCloud projet, and it seems to bring solutions to a
> lot of problems that have been bothering me these past months. Maybe I
> overestimate the project, so I think I'll begin by exposing my expectations,
> so that you can correct me if I'm wrong :).
>
> * bookmarks, RSS, music, and other personal data syncing
> Ever since I use a laptop in addition to my desktop computer, I've been
> struggling to sync data between these computers, and I don't even own a
> smartphone...
>

That exactly the idea. We are starting with a solution for files. But the plan is to have different
plugins for all this usecases you mentioned.

I hope that a lot of developers help with the client and the server side for this additional service plugins.



> For bookmarks, there are solutions like del.icio.us etc., but I don't want to
> store my data on private/for profit/etc. companies's servers.
> I finally discovered Mozilla Weave (https://mozillalabs.com/weave/), which made
> me use firefox instead of
> arora/rekonq/konqueror.
> It works well, we can install our own server, so maybe its integration to a
> kde browser could be a solution... But it would be even nicer if we could
> share those bookmarks, just like del.icio.us...

Yes. I agree. This is the goal. :-)


> Then, the RSS feeds: I use akregator on my laptop only, since I don't want to
> subscribe to each feed twice, and I did not find solutions other than sharing
> the configuration files...
> Google Reader (or other services) would do it, but I don't like web
> applications (plus the same previous argument for del.icio.us).
> It would be nice to have a server polling RSS feeds, and then pushing them to
> different readers (web apps, desktop akregator-like apps, etc).
>

I personally have exactly the same problem. I agree completely.

>
> Could those be, or are they already, projects for ownCloud?
>

The project is only 3 weeks old so we don?t have code for your suggestions yet.
But hopefully people will work on this soon.


>
> * Decentralized social networking
> I'm concerned with the growing centralization of data in the hands of a few
> private companies (Facebook, Yahoo, Microsoft, and worst of all, Google). By
> data, I mean email, IM, blogging, microblogging, photos, ...
>
> Could a solution to that be part of ownCloud, or is that completely off-topic?
> No page on the wiki or discussion of this list does mention that, but if I did
> not misunderstand it, Frank spoke about that in his keynote
> (http://www.socialdesktop.org/kdeandthecloud.pdf).

A decentralized social network would be the final goal. But there are still some
technical problems to make this happen.




> For example, I have in mind something like "aptitude install owncloud-
> blogging" which would automagically install and setup a blogging system
> (Wordpress, Dotclear, whatever) and would give the user the url of the blog on
> his own server, where he could start writing, just as easily as if he had
> signed up to Blogger.

Yes! Exactly.




>
> This would of course extend to email server, IM server, etc.
>
>
>
> If any of that could be part of ownCloud, I'd be happy to develop and start
> implementing these ideas :)

I think all of your ideas could be part of ownCloud. And you help if very welcome. :-)

Cheers
Frank




--
Frank Karlitschek
karlitschek at kde.org





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Questions and ideas

Clément 'clemux' Schreiner
> A decentralized social network would be the final goal. But there are still
> some technical problems to make this happen.

About that, I think the PSYC project would be interesting to look into. To
quote http://about.psyc.eu/ :
"PSYC is a protocol for a messaging infrastructure for text-based
conferencing, but also enabling transparent binary data. It has learned from
protocols such as IRC and XMPP and found an approach that should indeed scale
globally, by generalizing the multicast concept beyond chatrooms to presence
awareness, news- and friendcasting. It leers at decentralized privacy-driven
social networking (using trust metrics), telephony and audio/video
conferencing. Chatrooms are programmable, which enables for applications such
as event notification.

PSYC is not in competition with IRC and Jabber. As psyced implements both,
they are a very strong presence in the PSYC experience. PSYC has spent more
time on the design of a robust scaling interserver protocol, whereas the other
two protocols treat it like a necessary evil. We think all three protocols
make a great team and unity if IRC and Jabber stay strong on the client side
while PSYC is in charge of interserver traffic. Yet, we love to see powerful
native PSYC clients, too... "

(See also http://about.psyc.eu/Introduction)

What is really great with PSYC, is that they kept interoperability in mind:
the PSYC server psyced also acts as a XMPP server and as an IRC server,
implementing both client and interserver protocols.

And of course, it is not limited to text-based conferencing: experimental
features like microblogging (with interfaces to twitter and other systems),
real-time "push" notifications, friends profiles surfing (facebook-style), among
others, are already working (well, more like proof-of-concept).

http://about.psyc.eu/Social_network
http://about.psyc.eu/Microblogging
http://about.psyc.eu/Strength

They have done a great work of documenting a lot of different protocols,
websites, etc. with their flaws and advantages, on the wiki.

That said, I don't know if the course of action to take would be collaboration
between the two projects, integration, or just drawing inspiration from their
work... :)


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Questions and ideas

Jos Poortvliet
In reply to this post by Clément 'clemux' Schreiner
2010/3/25 Cl?ment 'clemux' Schreiner <clemux+kde at clemux.info>:

> Hello,
>
> I just stumbled upon the ownCloud projet, and it seems to bring solutions to a
> lot of problems that have been bothering me these past months. Maybe I
> overestimate the project, so I think I'll begin by exposing my expectations,
> so that you can correct me if I'm wrong :).
>
> ?* bookmarks, RSS, music, and other personal data syncing
> Ever since I use a laptop in addition to my desktop computer, I've been
> struggling to sync data between these computers, and I don't even own a
> smartphone...

Certainly part of the goals of ownCloud. Of course currently we're
still a while from archieving those ;-)

> For bookmarks, there are solutions like del.icio.us etc., but I don't want to
> store my data on private/for profit/etc. companies's servers.
> I finally discovered Mozilla Weave (https://mozillalabs.com/weave/), which made
> me use firefox instead of
> arora/rekonq/konqueror.
> It works well, we can install our own server, so maybe its integration to a
> kde browser could be a solution... But it would be even nicer if we could
> share those bookmarks, just like del.icio.us...
>
>
> Then, the RSS feeds: I use akregator on my laptop only, since I don't want to
> subscribe to each feed twice, and I did not find solutions other than sharing
> the configuration files...
> Google Reader (or other services) would do it, but I don't like web
> applications (plus the same previous argument for del.icio.us).
> It would be nice to have a server polling RSS feeds, and then pushing them to
> different readers (web apps, desktop akregator-like apps, etc).
>
>
>
>
> Could those be, or are they already, projects for ownCloud?
>
>
> ?* Decentralized social networking
> I'm concerned with the growing centralization of data in the hands of a few
> private companies (Facebook, Yahoo, Microsoft, and worst of all, Google). By
> data, I mean email, IM, blogging, microblogging, photos, ...
>
> Could a solution to that be part of ownCloud, or is that completely off-topic?
> No page on the wiki or discussion of this list does mention that, but if I did
> not misunderstand it, Frank spoke about that in his keynote
> (http://www.socialdesktop.org/kdeandthecloud.pdf).

The social desktop initiative is not directly part of ownCloud -
basically it's a complementary project. To "take back the web", the
KDE community has a few initiatives.

* ownCloud (owncloud.org) is the one which is concerned with syncing
and sharing your data; including music, bookmarks and probably
application settings.
* The social desktop  (socialdesktop.org) is about social networking;
* Project Silk (http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Silk) is about
freeing the web from the browser (all these services available in
off-line apps);
* for realtime collaboration we don't have a specific, big project
yet, but Telepathy & ownCloud might work together to accomplish this.
Of course several people are working on similar stuff - there just
isn't a big, overarching vision there yet.

> For example, I have in mind something like "aptitude install owncloud-
> blogging" which would automagically install and setup a blogging system
> (Wordpress, Dotclear, whatever) and would give the user the url of the blog on
> his own server, where he could start writing, just as easily as if he had
> signed up to Blogger.
>
>
> This would of course extend to email server, IM server, etc.

Sounds wicked, and it does fit with OwnCloud yes.

>
>
> If any of that could be part of ownCloud, I'd be happy to develop and start
> implementing these ideas :)

please go ahead :D

>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Cl?ment Schreiner

grtz
Jos

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Questions and ideas

Cody Rose
In reply to this post by Clément 'clemux' Schreiner
This sounds alot like the Tonido project ( http://www.tonido.com/ ),
especially with the whole social network thing.

I personally think OwnCloud should be looking for a active directory style
setup for the desktop (with a web ui to access components easily). This would
allow multiple desktops to be synced, a dropbox like solution, and a great
backup tool.


On Wednesday 24 March 2010 6:51:12 pm Cl?ment 'clemux' Schreiner wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I just stumbled upon the ownCloud projet, and it seems to bring solutions
> to a lot of problems that have been bothering me these past months. Maybe
> I overestimate the project, so I think I'll begin by exposing my
> expectations, so that you can correct me if I'm wrong :).
>
>  * bookmarks, RSS, music, and other personal data syncing
> Ever since I use a laptop in addition to my desktop computer, I've been
> struggling to sync data between these computers, and I don't even own a
> smartphone...
>
> For bookmarks, there are solutions like del.icio.us etc., but I don't want
> to store my data on private/for profit/etc. companies's servers.
> I finally discovered Mozilla Weave (https://mozillalabs.com/weave/), which
> made me use firefox instead of
> arora/rekonq/konqueror.
> It works well, we can install our own server, so maybe its integration to a
> kde browser could be a solution... But it would be even nicer if we could
> share those bookmarks, just like del.icio.us...
>
>
> Then, the RSS feeds: I use akregator on my laptop only, since I don't want
> to subscribe to each feed twice, and I did not find solutions other than
> sharing the configuration files...
> Google Reader (or other services) would do it, but I don't like web
> applications (plus the same previous argument for del.icio.us).
> It would be nice to have a server polling RSS feeds, and then pushing them
> to different readers (web apps, desktop akregator-like apps, etc).
>
>
>
>
> Could those be, or are they already, projects for ownCloud?
>
>
>  * Decentralized social networking
> I'm concerned with the growing centralization of data in the hands of a few
> private companies (Facebook, Yahoo, Microsoft, and worst of all, Google).
> By data, I mean email, IM, blogging, microblogging, photos, ...
>
> Could a solution to that be part of ownCloud, or is that completely
> off-topic? No page on the wiki or discussion of this list does mention
> that, but if I did not misunderstand it, Frank spoke about that in his
> keynote
> (http://www.socialdesktop.org/kdeandthecloud.pdf).
>
> For example, I have in mind something like "aptitude install owncloud-
> blogging" which would automagically install and setup a blogging system
> (Wordpress, Dotclear, whatever) and would give the user the url of the blog
> on his own server, where he could start writing, just as easily as if he
> had signed up to Blogger.
>
>
> This would of course extend to email server, IM server, etc.
>
>
>
> If any of that could be part of ownCloud, I'd be happy to develop and start
> implementing these ideas :)
>
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Cl?ment Schreiner
> _______________________________________________
> Owncloud mailing list
> Owncloud at kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud

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Questions and ideas

Cody Rose
In reply to this post by Clément 'clemux' Schreiner
This sounds alot like the Tonido project ( http://www.tonido.com/ ),
especially with the whole social network thing.

I personally think OwnCloud should be looking for a active directory style
setup for the desktop (with a web ui to access components easily). This would
allow multiple desktops to be synced, a dropbox like solution, and a great
backup tool.


On Wednesday 24 March 2010 6:51:12 pm Cl?ment 'clemux' Schreiner wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I just stumbled upon the ownCloud projet, and it seems to bring solutions
> to a lot of problems that have been bothering me these past months. Maybe
> I overestimate the project, so I think I'll begin by exposing my
> expectations, so that you can correct me if I'm wrong :).
>
>  * bookmarks, RSS, music, and other personal data syncing
> Ever since I use a laptop in addition to my desktop computer, I've been
> struggling to sync data between these computers, and I don't even own a
> smartphone...
>
> For bookmarks, there are solutions like del.icio.us etc., but I don't want
> to store my data on private/for profit/etc. companies's servers.
> I finally discovered Mozilla Weave (https://mozillalabs.com/weave/), which
> made me use firefox instead of
> arora/rekonq/konqueror.
> It works well, we can install our own server, so maybe its integration to a
> kde browser could be a solution... But it would be even nicer if we could
> share those bookmarks, just like del.icio.us...
>
>
> Then, the RSS feeds: I use akregator on my laptop only, since I don't want
> to subscribe to each feed twice, and I did not find solutions other than
> sharing the configuration files...
> Google Reader (or other services) would do it, but I don't like web
> applications (plus the same previous argument for del.icio.us).
> It would be nice to have a server polling RSS feeds, and then pushing them
> to different readers (web apps, desktop akregator-like apps, etc).
>
>
>
>
> Could those be, or are they already, projects for ownCloud?
>
>
>  * Decentralized social networking
> I'm concerned with the growing centralization of data in the hands of a few
> private companies (Facebook, Yahoo, Microsoft, and worst of all, Google).
> By data, I mean email, IM, blogging, microblogging, photos, ...
>
> Could a solution to that be part of ownCloud, or is that completely
> off-topic? No page on the wiki or discussion of this list does mention
> that, but if I did not misunderstand it, Frank spoke about that in his
> keynote
> (http://www.socialdesktop.org/kdeandthecloud.pdf).
>
> For example, I have in mind something like "aptitude install owncloud-
> blogging" which would automagically install and setup a blogging system
> (Wordpress, Dotclear, whatever) and would give the user the url of the blog
> on his own server, where he could start writing, just as easily as if he
> had signed up to Blogger.
>
>
> This would of course extend to email server, IM server, etc.
>
>
>
> If any of that could be part of ownCloud, I'd be happy to develop and start
> implementing these ideas :)
>
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Cl?ment Schreiner
> _______________________________________________
> Owncloud mailing list
> Owncloud at kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud