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admin tools

w_user
running 5.0.7

Dear group,

how can I have an overview, from my admin account, of the users activity
like how many times they logged in, how long, files that are stored,
shares, messages etc.

Thanks

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Re: admin tools

Norman Rieß
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Am 25.06.2013 11:55, schrieb w_user:

> running 5.0.7
>
> Dear group,
>
> how can I have an overview, from my admin account, of the users
> activity like how many times they logged in, how long, files that
> are stored, shares, messages etc.
>
> Thanks
>


You should not spy on your users.
Webserverlogs and data directories should be more than sufficient.

Norman

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Re: admin tools

RedLM - Luis Miguel Muñoz
Is not a question of spying users  but managing the system, I think. And not
all the Owncloud "admins" have access to Webserverlogs and data directories
to create automated reports for users or departments.

Don't you agree?

-----Mensaje original-----
De: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de
Norman Rieß
Enviado el: martes, 25 de junio de 2013 12:33
Para: [hidden email]
Asunto: Re: [Owncloud] admin tools

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Am 25.06.2013 11:55, schrieb w_user:

> running 5.0.7
>
> Dear group,
>
> how can I have an overview, from my admin account, of the users
> activity like how many times they logged in, how long, files that are
> stored, shares, messages etc.
>
> Thanks
>


You should not spy on your users.
Webserverlogs and data directories should be more than sufficient.

Norman

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Re: admin tools

Norman Rieß
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Am 25.06.2013 12:42, schrieb RedLM - Luis Miguel Muñoz:

> Is not a question of spying users  but managing the system, I
> think. And not all the Owncloud "admins" have access to
> Webserverlogs and data directories to create automated reports for
> users or departments.
>
> Don't you agree?
>
> -----Mensaje original----- De: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de Norman Rieß Enviado
> el: martes, 25 de junio de 2013 12:33 Para: [hidden email]
> Asunto: Re: [Owncloud] admin tools
>
> Am 25.06.2013 11:55, schrieb w_user:
>> running 5.0.7
>
>> Dear group,
>
>> how can I have an overview, from my admin account, of the users
>> activity like how many times they logged in, how long, files that
>> are stored, shares, messages etc.
>
>> Thanks
>
>
>
> You should not spy on your users. Webserverlogs and data
> directories should be more than sufficient.
>
> Norman
>

No, i do not.

Norman
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Re: admin tools

Erwin Rennert
Oh my oh my, what harsh words! Is there really need for that?

I would hardly call it spying to get a report on how much of her quota
user X has used and how much traffic user Y is generating.

OTOH, I agree that admins should not (easily) see *what* files their
users are storing. Of course if they know their way about an xterm, they
can find out quite easily, even now.

Yours,
Erwin

On 06/25/2013 12:49 PM, Norman Rieß wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Am 25.06.2013 12:42, schrieb RedLM - Luis Miguel Muñoz:
>> Is not a question of spying users  but managing the system, I
>> think. And not all the Owncloud "admins" have access to
>> Webserverlogs and data directories to create automated reports for
>> users or departments.
>>
>> Don't you agree?
>>
>> -----Mensaje original----- De: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de Norman Rieß Enviado
>> el: martes, 25 de junio de 2013 12:33 Para: [hidden email]
>> Asunto: Re: [Owncloud] admin tools
>>
>> Am 25.06.2013 11:55, schrieb w_user:
>>> running 5.0.7
>>
>>> Dear group,
>>
>>> how can I have an overview, from my admin account, of the users
>>> activity like how many times they logged in, how long, files that
>>> are stored, shares, messages etc.
>>
>>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> You should not spy on your users. Webserverlogs and data
>> directories should be more than sufficient.
>>
>> Norman
>>
>
> No, i do not.
>
> Norman
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Austria, Europe

Phone: ++43-1-495 04 42 - 61
Facsimile: ++43-1-495 04 42 - 40
http://www.zsi.at/

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Re: admin tools

Norman Rieß
Am 25.06.2013 12:54, schrieb Erwin Rennert:

> Oh my oh my, what harsh words! Is there really need for that?
>
> I would hardly call it spying to get a report on how much of her quota
> user X has used and how much traffic user Y is generating.
>
> OTOH, I agree that admins should not (easily) see *what* files their
> users are storing. Of course if they know their way about an xterm, they
> can find out quite easily, even now.
>
> Yours,
> Erwin
>
> On 06/25/2013 12:49 PM, Norman Rieß wrote:
> Am 25.06.2013 12:42, schrieb RedLM - Luis Miguel Muñoz:
>>>> Is not a question of spying users  but managing the system, I
>>>> think. And not all the Owncloud "admins" have access to
>>>> Webserverlogs and data directories to create automated reports for
>>>> users or departments.
>>>>
>>>> Don't you agree?
>>>>
>>>> -----Mensaje original----- De: [hidden email]
>>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de Norman Rieß Enviado
>>>> el: martes, 25 de junio de 2013 12:33 Para: [hidden email]
>>>> Asunto: Re: [Owncloud] admin tools
>>>>
>>>> Am 25.06.2013 11:55, schrieb w_user:
>>>>> running 5.0.7
>>>>
>>>>> Dear group,
>>>>
>>>>> how can I have an overview, from my admin account, of the users
>>>>> activity like how many times they logged in, how long, files that
>>>>> are stored, shares, messages etc.
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You should not spy on your users. Webserverlogs and data
>>>> directories should be more than sufficient.
>>>>
>>>> Norman
>>>>
>
> No, i do not.
>
> Norman


I would hardly call that harsh wording...

Why would you want to know how much of a quota is used? A quota is there
for a reason. You have this much space, you give the user this much
space. How much of it is used by an individual user is non of your business.
Neither is how much traffic a user is generating.

So he wants to see his users files, even their shares and read their
messages?? What do you call that? There is absolutely no reason to do that.

I can use google services if i wanted my data treated like that.


Kind Regards,
Norman

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Re: admin tools

RedLM - Luis Miguel Muñoz
When running my services, Ihave to do capacity planning, have to do
performance statistics, have to do costs chargeback... so, I need that
information not only for Owncloud but to all the services I'm running on my
Data Center.

Anyway, is clear this conversation will take us nowhere.

The answer to the question "Are there admin tools?" is NO.


-----Mensaje original-----
De: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de
Norman Rieß
Enviado el: martes, 25 de junio de 2013 13:30
Para: [hidden email]
Asunto: Re: [Owncloud] admin tools

Am 25.06.2013 12:54, schrieb Erwin Rennert:

> Oh my oh my, what harsh words! Is there really need for that?
>
> I would hardly call it spying to get a report on how much of her quota
> user X has used and how much traffic user Y is generating.
>
> OTOH, I agree that admins should not (easily) see *what* files their
> users are storing. Of course if they know their way about an xterm,
> they can find out quite easily, even now.
>
> Yours,
> Erwin
>
> On 06/25/2013 12:49 PM, Norman Rieß wrote:
> Am 25.06.2013 12:42, schrieb RedLM - Luis Miguel Muñoz:
>>>> Is not a question of spying users  but managing the system, I
>>>> think. And not all the Owncloud "admins" have access to
>>>> Webserverlogs and data directories to create automated reports for
>>>> users or departments.
>>>>
>>>> Don't you agree?
>>>>
>>>> -----Mensaje original----- De: [hidden email]
>>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de Norman Rieß Enviado
>>>> el: martes, 25 de junio de 2013 12:33 Para: [hidden email]
>>>> Asunto: Re: [Owncloud] admin tools
>>>>
>>>> Am 25.06.2013 11:55, schrieb w_user:
>>>>> running 5.0.7
>>>>
>>>>> Dear group,
>>>>
>>>>> how can I have an overview, from my admin account, of the users
>>>>> activity like how many times they logged in, how long, files that
>>>>> are stored, shares, messages etc.
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You should not spy on your users. Webserverlogs and data
>>>> directories should be more than sufficient.
>>>>
>>>> Norman
>>>>
>
> No, i do not.
>
> Norman


I would hardly call that harsh wording...

Why would you want to know how much of a quota is used? A quota is there for
a reason. You have this much space, you give the user this much space. How
much of it is used by an individual user is non of your business.
Neither is how much traffic a user is generating.

So he wants to see his users files, even their shares and read their
messages?? What do you call that? There is absolutely no reason to do that.

I can use google services if i wanted my data treated like that.


Kind Regards,
Norman

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Re: admin tools

Daniel Molkentin
In reply to this post by Norman Rieß
On 06/25/2013 01:29 PM, Norman Rieß wrote:
> Am 25.06.2013 12:54, schrieb Erwin Rennert:
> I would hardly call that harsh wording...
...
> Why would you want to know how much of a quota is used?
Simple: When you see that 90% of users are close to their quota, it
might be time to start ordering more storage.
> How much of it is used by an individual user is non of your business.
Yes it is, for instance for debugging purposes ("Hey, why did my upload
fail?")
> Neither is how much traffic a user is generating.
Again, not true, same reasons as above.
> So he wants to see his users files, even their shares and read their
> messages??
While I generally agree, that's up to company policies and local data
protection laws.
> What do you call that? There is absolutely no reason to do that. I can
> use google services if i wanted my data treated like that.
Right, but harshly said: if you do not trust your admin, and you do not
feel like becoming your own (!), then stick to the good old USB hard
drive for non-local storage.

Daniel

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Re: admin tools

Erwin Rennert
In reply to this post by RedLM - Luis Miguel Muñoz
On 06/25/2013 01:36 PM, RedLM - Luis Miguel Muñoz wrote:
> When running my services, Ihave to do capacity planning, have to do
> performance statistics, have to do costs chargeback... so, I need that
> information not only for Owncloud but to all the services I'm running on my
> Data Center.

Quite so.
By the way, the original poster asked for an "overview".

I think the request is reasonable and certainly justified in an
institutional context. I suggest, w_user might want to make a feature
request on github.

Erwin

>
> Anyway, is clear this conversation will take us nowhere.
>
> The answer to the question "Are there admin tools?" is NO.
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de
> Norman Rieß
> Enviado el: martes, 25 de junio de 2013 13:30
> Para: [hidden email]
> Asunto: Re: [Owncloud] admin tools
>
> Am 25.06.2013 12:54, schrieb Erwin Rennert:
>> Oh my oh my, what harsh words! Is there really need for that?
>>
>> I would hardly call it spying to get a report on how much of her quota
>> user X has used and how much traffic user Y is generating.
>>
>> OTOH, I agree that admins should not (easily) see *what* files their
>> users are storing. Of course if they know their way about an xterm,
>> they can find out quite easily, even now.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Erwin
>>
>> On 06/25/2013 12:49 PM, Norman Rieß wrote:
>> Am 25.06.2013 12:42, schrieb RedLM - Luis Miguel Muñoz:
>>>>> Is not a question of spying users  but managing the system, I
>>>>> think. And not all the Owncloud "admins" have access to
>>>>> Webserverlogs and data directories to create automated reports for
>>>>> users or departments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't you agree?
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Mensaje original----- De: [hidden email]
>>>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de Norman Rieß Enviado
>>>>> el: martes, 25 de junio de 2013 12:33 Para: [hidden email]
>>>>> Asunto: Re: [Owncloud] admin tools
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 25.06.2013 11:55, schrieb w_user:
>>>>>> running 5.0.7
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear group,
>>>>>
>>>>>> how can I have an overview, from my admin account, of the users
>>>>>> activity like how many times they logged in, how long, files that
>>>>>> are stored, shares, messages etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You should not spy on your users. Webserverlogs and data
>>>>> directories should be more than sufficient.
>>>>>
>>>>> Norman
>>>>>
>>
>> No, i do not.
>>
>> Norman
>
>
> I would hardly call that harsh wording...
>
> Why would you want to know how much of a quota is used? A quota is there for
> a reason. You have this much space, you give the user this much space. How
> much of it is used by an individual user is non of your business.
> Neither is how much traffic a user is generating.
>
> So he wants to see his users files, even their shares and read their
> messages?? What do you call that? There is absolutely no reason to do that.
>
> I can use google services if i wanted my data treated like that.
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> Norman
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owncloud mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud


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Center for Social Innovation

A-1150 Wien, Linke Wienzeile 246
Austria, Europe

Phone: ++43-1-495 04 42 - 61
Facsimile: ++43-1-495 04 42 - 40
http://www.zsi.at/

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Re: admin tools

Norman Rieß
In reply to this post by Daniel Molkentin
Am 25.06.2013 13:39, schrieb Daniel Molkentin:
> On 06/25/2013 01:29 PM, Norman Rieß wrote:
>> Why would you want to know how much of a quota is used?
> Simple: When you see that 90% of users are close to their quota, it
> might be time to start ordering more storage.

You can assume this much simply by looking at the used space on the
filesystem.

>> How much of it is used by an individual user is non of your business.
> Yes it is, for instance for debugging purposes ("Hey, why did my upload
> fail?")

I would think a error message would occur to the user and in the log files.
Otherwise cd ownclou_data_dir/ && du -sh <user>


>> Neither is how much traffic a user is generating.
> Again, not true, same reasons as above.

Again, true, same reasons as above.

>> So he wants to see his users files, even their shares and read their
>> messages??
> While I generally agree, that's up to company policies and local data
> protection laws.

It should not be.

>> What do you call that? There is absolutely no reason to do that. I can
>> use google services if i wanted my data treated like that.
> Right, but harshly said: if you do not trust your admin, and you do not
> feel like becoming your own (!), then stick to the good old USB hard
> drive for non-local storage.

I am that admin, who does not look at your data, who *does not* look at
your data, who does not *look* at your data, who does not look at *your*
data, who does not look at your *data*.


> Daniel
>

Norman

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Re: admin tools

Erwin Rennert
On 06/25/2013 02:27 PM, Norman Rieß wrote:

>
> I am that admin, who does not look at your data, who *does not* look at
> your data, who does not *look* at your data, who does not look at *your*
> data, who does not look at your *data*.
>

Oh, boy.
Please read the original post once more.

He/she/it was just asking for an *overview.*
IMO that spells 'statistics'. There is nothing evil about that. You're
making him look like ol' Felix Dzerzhinsky in person.

:-/
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Re: admin tools

Jan-Christoph Borchardt-4
Let’s end this discussion, we had it in the past (I won’t bother to
find it). We won’t build extra logging mechanisms into ownCloud for
the reasons Norman noted. Everything you request you can already find
when you use the terminal.

If you want extra stuff like an integrated dashboard (most likely for
your company deployment, right?), you can contact ownCloud Inc. and
pay a developer to do it: http://owncloud.com – but no one from the
community will likely work on this in their free time.
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Re: admin tools

Igor Živković
In reply to this post by Norman Rieß
On 25.06.2013 12:32, Norman Rieß wrote:

>
> Am 25.06.2013 11:55, schrieb w_user:
>> running 5.0.7
>>
>> Dear group,
>>
>> how can I have an overview, from my admin account, of the users
>> activity like how many times they logged in, how long, files that
>> are stored, shares, messages etc.
>>
>> Thanks
>
>
> You should not spy on your users.


You should be able to do with your own cloud whatever you like to do.

w_user: currently there is no such web-based statistics freely available
so you'll have to look through server logs and filesystem.

--
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Re: admin tools

wynken250
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
Refusing to provide admin tools is ridiculous.  As you say, server administrators can access anything they want via the terminal anyway, but it's inconvenient and slow.  I understand the open source community lives by a strict (and sometimes indecipherable) moral code, but why are you intentionally making an otherwise great piece of software so difficult to administer.  

I'm a relatively new adopter, only recently getting fed up with google drive and dropbox, so my first version was 7.0.2.  I never expected to be provided with tools for idly browsing user files and so I wasn't surprised to find them absent, but I was surprised to find next to no administrator tools for monitoring user space usage, traffic, and basic things of that nature.  Over the first few months of usage I got used to the idea, but today I upgraded to 7.0.3 and even the user data directories, and last login info is missing from the admin page.  WTF!

This twisted, ill conceived crusade to protect user privacy has gone way to far.  Most people running the community version of owncloud are doing so on home servers, for personal use, and are maybe sharing with a handful of friends, there is no 'big brother' at play here to protect anyone from.  

Please give us some admin tools so we don't have to spend so long bashing around to find out information about our server usage.

It would be a shame to see another group steal this project by packaging it more attractively as happens so frequently in the open source world...