ownCloud 6.0.2 planing

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ownCloud 6.0.2 planing

Frank Karlitschek-3
Hi everyone,

let's plan the 6.0.2 release. The schedule is:

- 25.2. All fixes have to be backported to stable6
- 26.2. Release of RC1
- 28.2. Release of final 6.0.2 tar file to packagers
- 3.3.  6.0.2 release

Does this work for everyone?


Frank




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Re: [OwnCloud-Packaging] ownCloud 6.0.2 planing

Diederik de Haas
On Thursday 20 February 2014 14:40:24 Frank Karlitschek wrote:
> - 26.2. Release of RC1
> - 28.2. Release of final 6.0.2 tar file to packagers

Why is there (always) such a short period between a beta/RC and the final
release?
This hardly gives ppl a chance to install and test it and/or figure out
what/where/why things went wrong and to report it and have time to fix it.

Regards,
  Diederik
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Re: [OwnCloud-Packaging] ownCloud 6.0.2 planing

Frank Karlitschek-3

On 20.02.2014, at 14:47, Diederik de Haas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thursday 20 February 2014 14:40:24 Frank Karlitschek wrote:
>> - 26.2. Release of RC1
>> - 28.2. Release of final 6.0.2 tar file to packagers
>
> Why is there (always) such a short period between a beta/RC and the final
> release?
> This hardly gives ppl a chance to install and test it and/or figure out
> what/where/why things went wrong and to report it and have time to fix it.

Hi Diederik,

thanks for the feedback! Unfortunately we have a timing challenge here. But we can do the RC1 one day earlier. So the schedule looks like that:

- 24.2. All fixes have to be backported to stable6
- 25.2. Release of RC1
- 28.2. Release of final 6.0.2 tar file to packagers
- 3.3.  6.0.2 release

Does this work for everyone?


Frank




> Regards,
>  Diederik
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Re: [OwnCloud-Packaging] ownCloud 6.0.2 planing

Diederik de Haas
On Thursday 20 February 2014 15:09:23 Frank Karlitschek wrote:
> > Why is there (always) such a short period between a beta/RC and the final
> > release?
> > This hardly gives ppl a chance to install and test it and/or figure out
> > what/where/why things went wrong and to report it and have time to fix it.
>
> thanks for the feedback! Unfortunately we have a timing challenge here. But
> we can do the RC1 one day earlier.

It was actually ment as a general question wrt the release management of OC.

When there are fixes for security issues, it makes total sense to release those
as soon as possible.
I also support the idea of 'release early, release often', but *I* have the
feeling that too many times the releases are 'rushed' because of the small
time window between beta/RC and the actual release.

Cheers,
   Diederik
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Re: [OwnCloud-Packaging] ownCloud 6.0.2 planing

Michael
I want to echo Diederik here. Stability/bugs have been my issues with OC on my personal install. Files disappearing and all those related issues(in the past). While it has gotten better, there have been regressions as well that didn't get caught before a rollout. Hell, right now I'm running an outdated version because I'm scared to update; OC made me restore from backup before(which I never like doing, I don't have the time to do a multi-tiered backup like I would like).

Maybe if we release security update versions, with minimal changes, and all other changes separately this would help. I do know I would appreciate more through testing and a longer period of change freezes to allow for more testing.

While these issues have gotten better as the project matures, there is still issues out there and there is a lingering mistrust of OC(look at the OC subreddit for examples).

My 2 cents,
Michael


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Diederik de Haas <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thursday 20 February 2014 15:09:23 Frank Karlitschek wrote:
> > Why is there (always) such a short period between a beta/RC and the final
> > release?
> > This hardly gives ppl a chance to install and test it and/or figure out
> > what/where/why things went wrong and to report it and have time to fix it.
>
> thanks for the feedback! Unfortunately we have a timing challenge here. But
> we can do the RC1 one day earlier.

It was actually ment as a general question wrt the release management of OC.

When there are fixes for security issues, it makes total sense to release those
as soon as possible.
I also support the idea of 'release early, release often', but *I* have the
feeling that too many times the releases are 'rushed' because of the small
time window between beta/RC and the actual release.

Cheers,
   Diederik
--
GPG: 0x138E41915C7EFED6

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Re: [OwnCloud-Packaging] ownCloud 6.0.2 planing

Frank Karlitschek-3
Hi,

thanks a lot for the feedback. This is very helpful.
The thing is that we are talking here about a minimal security and important bug fix release only. The changes in 6.0.2 are all developed, reviewed and tested in master already. Additionally they are individually selected for backporting to stable6 because we don't want to break things.

The latest state of the stable6 branch can always be downloaded and tested in the daily build independently from an RC release.
download.owncloud.org/community/owncloud-daily-stable6.tar.bz2

Everyone who wants to help testing is more then welcome to test this and report bugs if anything is found.

I hope this makes sense for everyone.


Frank


On 20.02.2014, at 15:59, Michael <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I want to echo Diederik here. Stability/bugs have been my issues with OC on my personal install. Files disappearing and all those related issues(in the past). While it has gotten better, there have been regressions as well that didn't get caught before a rollout. Hell, right now I'm running an outdated version because I'm scared to update; OC made me restore from backup before(which I never like doing, I don't have the time to do a multi-tiered backup like I would like).
>
> Maybe if we release security update versions, with minimal changes, and all other changes separately this would help. I do know I would appreciate more through testing and a longer period of change freezes to allow for more testing.
>
> While these issues have gotten better as the project matures, there is still issues out there and there is a lingering mistrust of OC(look at the OC subreddit for examples).
>
> My 2 cents,
> Michael
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Diederik de Haas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Thursday 20 February 2014 15:09:23 Frank Karlitschek wrote:
> > > Why is there (always) such a short period between a beta/RC and the final
> > > release?
> > > This hardly gives ppl a chance to install and test it and/or figure out
> > > what/where/why things went wrong and to report it and have time to fix it.
> >
> > thanks for the feedback! Unfortunately we have a timing challenge here. But
> > we can do the RC1 one day earlier.
>
> It was actually ment as a general question wrt the release management of OC.
>
> When there are fixes for security issues, it makes total sense to release those
> as soon as possible.
> I also support the idea of 'release early, release often', but *I* have the
> feeling that too many times the releases are 'rushed' because of the small
> time window between beta/RC and the actual release.
>
> Cheers,
>    Diederik
> --
> GPG: 0x138E41915C7EFED6
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> Devel mailing list
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [OwnCloud-Packaging] ownCloud 6.0.2 planing

Diederik de Haas
In reply to this post by Diederik de Haas
[replying to the 'wrong' msg, since sth went wrong with my mail]

On Thursday 20 February 2014 15:09:23 Frank Karlitschek wrote:
> The thing is that we are talking here about a minimal security and important
> bug fix release only. The changes in 6.0.2 are all developed, reviewed and
> tested in master already.

Again, it is not about the 6.0.2 release.

> Additionally they are individually selected for
> backporting to stable6 because we don't want to break things.

Excellent :-)

> The latest state of the stable6 branch can always be downloaded and tested
> in the daily build independently from an RC release.
> download.owncloud.org/community/owncloud-daily-stable6.tar.bz2

And here comes the core issue I was trying to make (but apparently failed).
You mentioned earlier in the mail that the changes are tested in master, but
you have to keep in mind *by whom*.
My guess is: (some of) the developers who make a living writing code for
owncloud and probably by the person who reported the issue that has been fixed.
My experience as developer tells me that most of the time when you fix a bug,
you test whether that bug is fixed and "that's it".
But my main point is, there are only a couple of ppl who verified that the bug
is fixed.

It's great that you offer the daily build of stable6.
But how many ppl, outside of the ppl who make a living writing code for
owncloud, use/test that? And how extensive is that testing? And does it
represent a good enough portion of how ppl use owncloud in production or
personal use?

That's where the importance of the pre-release phase, with alpha/beta/RC
releases, come into play. At that point the audience of ppl who can/want to
test it becomes MUCH wider. For example beta/RC releases are (usually?)
packaged for Debian and uploaded to the experimental archives.
And with that wider audience the chances that regressions/bugs are found is a
lot bigger, but you have to give ppl time for it, since most of them do it in
their free time besides work/family/etc life.

I hope I have made my point now and will shut up about it, before I get
(really) annoying ;-)

Cheers,
  Diederik
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