reddit thread: Sync daemon on server?

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reddit thread: Sync daemon on server?

Jan-Christoph Borchardt-4
I’m at GUADEC (the GNOME conference) at the moment and someone pointed
me to this reddit thread on the ownCloud 7 release:
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2biaeh/owncloud_7_released/cj5n5bq

The main comment says:

 > It still needs a proper syncing daemon on a server. Having the client
machine handle all of the syncing isn't good for performance. I was
using Owncloud 5 and I remember trying to sync a computer with about
60-100 GB worth of iPhone pictures stored on a Windows machine (Don't
kill me, this was a friends computer). The whole process hung 20 gigs
in, couldn't index any more than that, and the entire process took all
of the life out of my friends laptop.

Any comment on that (is this still happening with ownCloud 7), or are we
doing anything about stuff like that?
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Re: reddit thread: Sync daemon on server?

Klaas Freitag-3
On 28.07.2014 11:48, Jan-Christoph Borchardt wrote:

> I’m at GUADEC (the GNOME conference) at the moment and someone pointed
> me to this reddit thread on the ownCloud 7 release:
> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2biaeh/owncloud_7_released/cj5n5bq
>
> The main comment says:
>
>> It still needs a proper syncing daemon on a server. Having the client
> machine handle all of the syncing isn't good for performance. I was
> using Owncloud 5 and I remember trying to sync a computer with about
> 60-100 GB worth of iPhone pictures stored on a Windows machine (Don't
> kill me, this was a friends computer). The whole process hung 20 gigs
> in, couldn't index any more than that, and the entire process took all
> of the life out of my friends laptop.

This is, sorry to say that, not hitting the point. No, we do not need a
syncing daemon, ownCloud has a different architecture currently, and I
do not see how a daemon would benefit us at all. Also, it makes sense to
put computing tasks on clients rather than on servers, very generally
spoken, guess why JS is cool nowadays?

What he might mean is that we could improve the "protocol" between
client and server to improve performance, and we did a lot  compared to
oC 5 and its sync clients. And we will do more over time of course.

It would be helpful if people would use their time and energy to ask
concrete questions and make kind of thought through proposals. And care
to update to take advantage of improvements :-D

regards,
Klaas
>


--
ownCloud GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, Holger Dyroff, Frank Karlitschek
Schloßäckerstrasse 26a, 90443 Nürnberg, HRB 28050 (AG Nürnberg)
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Re: reddit thread: Sync daemon on server?

Jan-Christoph Borchardt-4
In reply to this post by Jan-Christoph Borchardt-4
Yeah, I already thought something like that. Unfortunately these comment threads rarely have people clearing it up.

Anyone here with a reddit account who's up for keeping an eye on these things from time to time?
(I'm doing that on Hacker News for example.)

Am 28.07.2014 12:43 schrieb Klaas Freitag <[hidden email]>:

>
> On 28.07.2014 11:48, Jan-Christoph Borchardt wrote:
> > I’m at GUADEC (the GNOME conference) at the moment and someone pointed
> > me to this reddit thread on the ownCloud 7 release:
> > http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2biaeh/owncloud_7_released/cj5n5bq
> >
> > The main comment says:
> >
> >> It still needs a proper syncing daemon on a server. Having the client
> > machine handle all of the syncing isn't good for performance. I was
> > using Owncloud 5 and I remember trying to sync a computer with about
> > 60-100 GB worth of iPhone pictures stored on a Windows machine (Don't
> > kill me, this was a friends computer). The whole process hung 20 gigs
> > in, couldn't index any more than that, and the entire process took all
> > of the life out of my friends laptop.
>
> This is, sorry to say that, not hitting the point. No, we do not need a
> syncing daemon, ownCloud has a different architecture currently, and I
> do not see how a daemon would benefit us at all. Also, it makes sense to
> put computing tasks on clients rather than on servers, very generally
> spoken, guess why JS is cool nowadays?
>
> What he might mean is that we could improve the "protocol" between
> client and server to improve performance, and we did a lot  compared to
> oC 5 and its sync clients. And we will do more over time of course.
>
> It would be helpful if people would use their time and energy to ask
> concrete questions and make kind of thought through proposals. And care
> to update to take advantage of improvements :-D
>
> regards,
> Klaas
> >
>
> --
> ownCloud GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, Holger Dyroff, Frank Karlitschek
> Schloßäckerstrasse 26a, 90443 Nürnberg, HRB 28050 (AG Nürnberg)
> _______________________________________________
> Devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
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Re: reddit thread: Sync daemon on server?

Sven Dzepina
In reply to this post by Jan-Christoph Borchardt-4
Hi,

I think you don't need a sync daemon. 

To get a push experience, I would design an EventStream in PHP. 

Mozilla explains this technology here:

So basically its a client side open socket to a php script and the php script pushes in an infinite loop all changes to the client. 

Instead of polling for changes, PHP handles this. 

Greets,
Sven

Am 28.07.2014 um 11:48 schrieb Jan-Christoph Borchardt <[hidden email]>:

I’m at GUADEC (the GNOME conference) at the moment and someone pointed me to this reddit thread on the ownCloud 7 release:
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2biaeh/owncloud_7_released/cj5n5bq

The main comment says:

> It still needs a proper syncing daemon on a server. Having the client machine handle all of the syncing isn't good for performance. I was using Owncloud 5 and I remember trying to sync a computer with about 60-100 GB worth of iPhone pictures stored on a Windows machine (Don't kill me, this was a friends computer). The whole process hung 20 gigs in, couldn't index any more than that, and the entire process took all of the life out of my friends laptop.

Any comment on that (is this still happening with ownCloud 7), or are we doing anything about stuff like that?
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Re: reddit thread: Sync daemon on server?

Sven Dzepina


Am 28.07.2014 um 14:29 schrieb Olivier Goffart <[hidden email]>:

What makes you think that?

A daemon is nothing else than a "script" running infinite on the server in background to check for changes. Ok. 

You can do that in PHP too. The client requests the server via one GET like /serverside_changes.php

This script has a loop
while(1) {
 check_changes();
 Sleep(1); // relax CPU
}

The client requests this and the connection stays open as long as the server does not close it. 


Currently we do a GET on the server every 30 seconds to see if anything has 
changed.
That GET request should be quite cheap.

A deamon would allow us to see the change earlier than in 30 seconds, but is 
that really needed?

See above. 
You would get near instant (1s delay + computation time at max) results of changes from the server within the "eventstream". This is a technology already utilised on the web front end of oC. 




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Re: reddit thread: Sync daemon on server?

Jan-Christoph Borchardt-4
In reply to this post by Sven Dzepina
Klaas, Sven,

would be cool if you can comment that on the actual reddit thread. :)


On 28.07.2014 14:20, Sven wrote:
Hi,

I think you don't need a sync daemon. 

To get a push experience, I would design an EventStream in PHP. 

Mozilla explains this technology here:

So basically its a client side open socket to a php script and the php script pushes in an infinite loop all changes to the client. 

Instead of polling for changes, PHP handles this. 

Greets,
Sven

Am 28.07.2014 um 11:48 schrieb Jan-Christoph Borchardt <[hidden email]>:

I’m at GUADEC (the GNOME conference) at the moment and someone pointed me to this reddit thread on the ownCloud 7 release:
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2biaeh/owncloud_7_released/cj5n5bq

The main comment says:

> It still needs a proper syncing daemon on a server. Having the client machine handle all of the syncing isn't good for performance. I was using Owncloud 5 and I remember trying to sync a computer with about 60-100 GB worth of iPhone pictures stored on a Windows machine (Don't kill me, this was a friends computer). The whole process hung 20 gigs in, couldn't index any more than that, and the entire process took all of the life out of my friends laptop.

Any comment on that (is this still happening with ownCloud 7), or are we doing anything about stuff like that?
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel


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